Goedenavond,

Ik heb de coordinaten van de beuk 8298 aangepast.

Als vrijwilliger op dit landgoed weet ik dat die in eerste instantie niet op de juiste plaats op de kaart was neergezet.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Eric Hoogstraat

Dank voor de bijdrage. Ik had wat moeite om achter mijn scherm de exacte plaats te bepalen. Ik hoop dat u in staat bent ook het plantjaar te achterhalen en eventueel een hoogtemeting of -schatting te doen.

Graag gedaan. Zo'n plaatsbepaling op een twee-dimensionale luchtfoto is ook lastig en dan helpt lokale kennis, vandaar.

Een hoogtebepaling... daar is een truukje voor maar dat weet ik niet precies, ik zal eens rondvragen. Zodra ik de hoogte weet zal ik die vermelden.

Een plantdatum zal lastig te achterhalen zijn. Ik weet wel dat het park in de tweede helft van de 18de eeuw in de huidige vorm (Engelse landschapstijl) is aangelegd dus de boom kan maximaal 250 jaar oud zijn. Maar het is goed mogelijk dat deze van later datum is. Ik zal proberen dit uit te vinden en dan vermeld ik dat ook wel.

Groeten,

Eric Hoogstraat

Hallo Erik,

Hier vind je een uitgebreide discussie over de beschikbare methoden en de voors en tegens.http://www.monumentaltrees.com/nl/gebruikers/JeroenZutphen14/overleg/#301

Ik heb eerder overwogen zo'n hoogtemeter waar ze het over hebben te kopen, maar vind hem te prijzig. Dat betekent dat voor de meeste mensen slechts een educated guess mogelijk is. Maar er lopen hier een paar professionele dendrologen rond, die een dergelijk apparaat hebben. Ze zullen wel eens een keer langs lopen schat ik in.

Groet

Wim Brinkerink

Hallo Eric,

welkom op deze website!

Enkele min of meer eenvoudige methodes om de hoogte van een boom te schatten kan je vinden op:http://www.monumentaltrees.com/nl/content/hoogtemeten/

Groeten,

Tim

Dag Wim en Tim,

De tips over het bij benadering bepalen van de hoogte heb ik gelezen.

Een apparaat aanschaffen om dat te doen ben ik niet van plan, voor mij persoonlijk is het absoluut niet belangrijk hoe hoog een boom is... zonder die wetenschap kan ik er ook van genieten! Maar voor de volledigheid van de informatie op deze site kan het een welkome aanvulling zijn.

Ook de discussie over de bruikbaarheid van de diverse methodes heb ik gelezen. Zoals zo vaak heeft elke methode voors en tegens. Welke methode in dit geval bruikbaar is zal ik moeten uitzoeken.

Wordt vervolgd!

Groet,

Eric

Deze Taxus is vanuit de struikvorm tot een meerstammige boom doorgegroeid. Mogelijk betreft het de cultivar Dovastoniana, een oude cv uit 1777. Vooral in de 19e eeuw populair in parken en grote tuinen. Zie ook de taxus van Brummen.

Dank voor de info. Je zou het overigens niet zeggen, omdat de basis een vrij stevige compacte massa is.

Hi Sisley thanks for the supplement. It shows the tree in the winter and all seasons have their own specialities. I had this tree in my archive a long time. I finally uploaded it and it is worth it. We surely agree on that. Later on I will upload some text. If you want you can make some text and I will translate it. If you don't feel for it, it's ok off course.

Wim

The only time when I visited this old lime tree, I was enchanted by his form and by the place where he lives.

Yes, I can make some text for many trees.

I had long time write description trees for 'Krapoarboricole',but I believe that we can't make so long text in this site ?

http://krapooarboricole.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/tilleul-de-schoenenbourg-bas-rhin/

For example, you want write the story of some trees, the differents uses of the species, health states,... ?

Hi Sisley,

It is not up to me to decide what's appropriate or not and I think there isn't anyone who wants to decide that. So let me just say how I see it. And that's just one opinion, no more, no less.

I am familiair with krapoarboricole. I have placed some trees on it myself. I have used it to prepare my last visit to France. And I will keep on doing it. It's a very helpfull and nice site.

But I think that Dutch are more businesslike than French. The Dutch are interested, but not very poëtic. I think that "in general" the descriptions on Krapo... are in a poëtic mode that cannot work in the Netherlands... Nevertheless I think Dutch are open to change and new visions. So I think that you should feel free to react in your own way. But the consequence is that not everybody will like it. In my opinion you should try to find a nice compromise between the French and Dutch way of doing. I suggest...trial and error... Don't be afraid for it. We'll see how it works out. The Dutch are still quite tolerant and also curious. And...very respectful to the french...

Greetings and good luck.

Wim

And... I still enjoy Krapoarboricole....

Ok, I must see for which tree we can uploaded text.

I would know the description who are most popular ?

It's true that some specimens need text. Measures and pictures are essential but some tree(s) need text to make the document more valuable.

Good luck. I can give an example I just saw on the site, alltough it will be difficult for you te read, because it is technical and in Dutch. If you look at the description of Lucombe Oak in Kew Gardens in Londen, it's an elaborate and efficiënt text. Nevertheless I think more "folk" stories are interesting just as well. And I think the initiators and keepers of this site will sooner or later have to think about leaving English texts on this site. In view of the development of this site with more and more international visitors, one day it wil have to be dealt with.

Why not try some text about Schoenenbourg lime?. There is enough to tell about it.

Good luck again.

Wim

Hi isley,

I have seen that some descriptions are in English. So what's letting you? . In your situation I wouldn't hesitate to write down your impressions, knowledge and feeling to a tree. I am curious about your contributions. Please, act naturally, surprise us, and tell us what's important and worth knowing aabout trees.

Wim

Of course everybody can write his/her own style text at this website. I trink that the goal of the initiator Tim is that contributors to the site feel free to write their own impressions or to write more objective information. For myself I prefer more a dendrologic, historical and sometimes (semi-)scientific style, as for me this website in part is a database with an overvieuw of monumental trees, with photos and information. But of course those trees are often inspiring, beautiful and interesting. They can stimulate poetic feelings, so I think there should be room for people to express their feelings in a poetic way. Perhaps it should be the best that with each tree there is room for more historical and dendrological type of information and a special place for poetical and emotional reactions.

This website is in five languages. Sisley should write in French, this should stimulate other French people to contribute more to the site. Myself I write most texts in Dutch but when I have time for it translate them also in English.

Regards, Jeroen

I try to write the whole in english.

It's for practice my language, and I see that the whole of the readers are strangers (not french).

I ask me that if I try to write in french, the translation will be correct to read for the others person ?

Of course, my first objectif is the dendrologic data. But when I can write a text with my impressions I would a little get the feeling of the meet.

This is came with the many text that I have wrote for the blog 'Krapoarboricole'.

In the beginning to my participation (09/08) for him,I've not measure the importance of the numbers of trees that I will found and the number of person that I will meet.

The project of the trees founding is a enormous story in which everybody can bring a little of the edification to etablish a big international league.

I agree with Jeroen. Everybody's free to write his/her own texts and together we might come up with a valuable description of each tree in any language, more or less like e.g. Wikipedia works.

Kind regards,

Tim

I live in Grays harbor county, city, Montesano and in our small park we have sequioas. They are about eighty years old. Our local city government is looking to take them down. They say there at risk, branches falling out, one of the tops died out back in 07, I'm not an expert but I think it was do to an ice storm at that time. Since then they look fine. I need to know if a core inspection can be done to determine how sound the trees are. The trees are surounded by sidewalks and streets. We live on the edge of the Olympics so I would think they are getting plenty of water. How far down do the tap roots go in the sequioas? Also in the bark on some of them there are perfectly five to ten inch holes, whats with that, a disease, fungus, or just a normal thing? Oh by the way thats Washington state, I didn't mention that at the beginning. I worked for the city for thirty yrs. in the parks, so I am very concerned about this proposal of taking the trees down, so I need as much facts as possible about Sequioas. If you could enlighten me with some information I would be most appreciative. Thank you, Bill Olson

It's really not easy to explain the health of a tree from a distance.

Do you know of people who can diagnose a particular disease on trees (ranger, tree climber, an expert in the mechanics of living wood and various pathogens, ...)?

Giant sequoias, if the ground allows it, can have very long creeping roots. However they need a constant humidity and a good water supply.

It's any evidence of insect damage?

The best thing would really make a competent person on site to establish an assessment of the potential danger of the tree.

Hoe is het mogelijk dat het me niet lukt om 4 foto's toe te voegen aan de Taxus baccata, die in Hall staat op het erf van een oude boerderij aan de Slatweg 15?

Ik volg iedere keer alle aangegeven stappen die het programma aangeeft.

Maar elke keer staan ze niet op de site, als ik er mee klaar ben.

Het is me wel gelukt om 2 foto's van een Cercidiphyllum in Zevenaar op de site toe te voegen.

groeten Jaap Kuip jjkuip@online.nl

Hallo Jaap,

ik heb het ook eens geprobeerd met een testfoto via de linkhttp://www.monumentaltrees.com/nl/upload/302d302d6e6c642d31362d3336362d333134302d333631352d343339352d37313531 en dat is wel gelukt.

Kan je nog eens proberen en indien het niet lukt de link van de pagina meedelen, alsook of je onderaan na het ingeven van de info op "opslaan" drukte?

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Tim

Hi all,

I have inserted more than 1000 Hungarian trees, villages, measurements, ... in the database from György Pósfai's collection with his permission.

See:

http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/hun/
http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/records/hun/

Kind regards,

Tim

I would asked why some girth specimens that I have registred are not listed in the global records list from the site ?

ex: the scots pine '7128', the common pear tree '4569'

Thank.

Hi Sisley,

that is because you have not indicated the height measurements for these trees are "exact" measurements. I see you indicated these measurements as "estimations based on experience". Only exact tree measurements are used for the record lists.

See:http://www.monumentaltrees.com/nl/overleg/115#301

If these measurements were indeed exact measurements, you can edit these measurements and change the registered measurement method. Then these trees will appear in the record lists.

Kind regards,

Tim

Hi Sisley,

This pine is also not in the girth list while you have marked it as a multitrunk tree: those are not shown in the normal list ordered on girth. You can show them by pushing the button "show multi trunk trees".

Jeroen

Hi,

it is now possible to register trees in South Africa: http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/zaf/

Kind regards,

Tim

I live in western KY. I ordered a sequoia from a Michigan tree nursery ( Cold Stream farms.) I have a pond.How close to the pond can I plant the tree? Should I plant it more on top of a hill or can I plant it in the edge off the pond?

Thanks;Derek

i am 37 years old verses a tree of +- 2000 years. I am currently writing a book with one of my biggest attempts to change the way that people become so selfish. In my book I want to refer to tree using this information make my resurge more prominent, however would like to get consent by the administrator of the organization in writing. I do feel that my attempts will be of such caliber that my movement will change people and their thoughts ( the way that we conduct ourselves in live reference my book) to respect nature and attempts to protect our l history

Hi,

the site is now able to distinguish between subspecies, varieties and cultivars.

It is also possible to register these separately, as can be seen on:http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/edit/3134/

Kind regards,

Tim

Good!

Some small corrections:

The entry "Acer cappadocicum subsp. 'labelii'" (re this specimen) is a typo for lobelii, which is best treated as a separate species (as already listed for other specimens!)

Davidia involucrata 'Vilmoriniana' is currently listed as a cultivar, but should be a variety (realistically, it should be a separate species, as it has a different chromosome count to var. involucrata and cannot hybridise with it, though very few botanists currently treat it so)

Pinus nigra subsp. 'laricio' is correctly treated as Pinus nigra var. corsicana (reference)

Quercus ilex subsp. 'rotundifolia' is now treated as a separate species Quercus rotundifolia (reference)

Tilia × europaea 'Euchlora' is a separate hybrid Tilia × euchlora of different parentage (T. cordata × T. dasystyla )

Pilzclimber hat nachgemessen am 04.04.2012 und bestätigt die Maße (BHU ~4,6 m, Höhe ~47 m)

Very fine tree Kouta, impressive. Will the top of the scar on the top tree be about 1.83 metresish, 6 foot?

Hallo Pilzclimber, Wie hast du die Höhe gemessen?

Hi Rob, I cannot answer. I did not measure the height of the scar. Sorry.

Kouta

http://www.teachingtrees.org.uk/information/greatyorkshiretreesfolder/greatyorkshiretrees.htm

I happened to come across this site with photos of some interesting contorted trees. The Sweet Chestnut at Studley is as interesting as the gnarled oaks as the buttress pattern makes it look like two trolls looking out from a hole in the base.

Ich habe kürzlich zwei Fotos hochgeladen. Sie werden in der Vorschau jetzt extrem vergrößert und verpixelt dargestellt, obwohl das Originalbild wesentlich kleiner ist. Woran liegt das und lässt sich das beheben?

Die Website geht davon aus, dass jedes Bild mindestens 600 Pixel breit ist. Kleinere Bilder werden automatisch gestreckt. Sie können dies vermeiden, wenn Sie größere Bilder hochladen :)

Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Tim

Danke für die Hilfreiche Antwort - dann werde ich die Bilder größer hochladen.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

mrgreen

Hoi Han,

Je hebt nu genoteerd dat deze kastanje dateert uit 1953, slechts twee jaar ouder dan ik zelf. Dat zal een vergissing zijn. Ben benieuwd wat je eigenlijk wilde invullen.

Groeten, Jeroen

Ha Jeroen.

Die datum heb ik niet zelf ingevuld. Toen ik bezig was met die boom kwam er opeens melding dat 'Olelop' deze leeftijsschatting op gaf. Ik heb geprobeerd het te veranderen in 'leeftijd onbekend' , maar dat lukt niet. Dus ik heb al een mailtje gestuurd naar Tim om dit te corrigeren.

Ik zou de boom zelf schatten op een plantjaar van rond eind 18e eeuw. Mar het blijft moeilijk.

Dus, geen actie van mij, geen 1 aprilgrap maar waarschijnlijk een foutje ontstaan door het gelijktijdig actief zijn op de site, denk ik.

Groet en bedankt, Han

Heren,

ik heb het aangepast.

Het is mogelijk om een leeftijdsschatting toe te voegen of te veranderen, maar niet om de schatting te verwijderen zodat de boom "leeftijd onbekend" krijgt.

Ik heb dit op het (lange) lijstje gezet met dingen die ik nog moet doen. Dit heeft wel lage prioriteit.

Groeten,

Tim

Ha Tim

Dank voor het aanpassen. Het zal niet zo vaak voorkomen dat dit gebeurt, dus wat mij betreft mag het voorlopig onder aan die lijst blijven staan.

Bedankt en veel groeten, Han

Hi Martin,

it is possible to add a link to your personal website on your own profile page.

See:http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/users/Martin/info/

If people click on your name, they can see that link too.

I see you already added a link to your personal photo album, which is good. I would appreciate it if you would not copy that link on a whole lot of other location pages. These pages are meant to contain text only, maybe a link to the official page of that location (if it is e.g. a castle or a location that can be visited), but preferably not to general personal pages or personal web albums.

I hope you understand this.

Kind regards,

Tim

Hi !

I have a question about the age of this tree :

Do you have estimated this with a archival document or a testimony of a person ?

I ask this because I surprised by the 59 years for a girth of 2,35 m.

It's a increasing the radius of about 0,63 cm/year.

I know sorbus torminalis who grow in forest between 0,17-0,27 cm/year but for a field tree I think that is maybe somewhat underestimated ?

His growth is quite slow to medium, even in rich soil. In the early years it may grow faster but then it still maintains a smaller increase

Thank

The trunk on Beech 6431 looks almost uniformally perfect, hardly a blemish. Is this a locally celebrated tree/has it been a long celebrated local tree and so specially protected around it's base via the walk boards? Have these boards just been placed around it in other words?

The tree is famous from at least 1930 (black and white photo) and to be found at the well known Michelin maps for decades. So the board was created to protect the roots againts trampling by the many visitors. I don't know when this was done, perhaps Han knows.

Jeroen

Hey

I guess the board is not so old. I think that it's done in this age. The making of such a board, I don't like very much. The surroundings of the footh of a tree has to be naturaly, from mine point of view.

Greetings from Han

You are right Han, I also prefer natural surroundings of a tree. But in the case of a very well known tree the trampling of thousands of feet could be the dead of the tree. For this reason many famous trees are fenced. The tallest trees on the world (the tallest redwoods like Hyperion and Stratosphere Giant in California) are kept secret just for the same reason.

Jeroen

Yes, is'nt very nice for the natural surroundings but it's the only valid protection for the roots. The barriers are crossed, the soils covered are trampled and the fences are unsightly...

A good accommodation between Human and tree.

Are there any Populus Nigra var Italica on MT? Are there any of the 'false' Lombardy Polars of the Populus Plantierensis group? What is the tallest Nigra var Italica in Europe and Britain, what is the tallest Poplar of the Plantierensis group in Europe and in Britain?

I was in York on Saturday and it was such a lovely day that I went in to the Museum Gardens there. I hadn't been in for years and came across two impressive Poplars labelled Populus Nigra var Italica. Are these two trees really likely to be Italica given this tree's dislike of cool, humid climates? I didn't have a camera with me but these two were fine trees, judging by the people walking beneath viewed from distance possibly 25-30 metres.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23718187eN04/3736699310/

Found this, claims of 38 metres for the tallest 'Lombardy Poplar' in the UK.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/trees/msg0422221012117.html

Also came across this discussion, 141 feet claimed, can anyone beat this tree in Europe?

Yes,

All P. nigra 'Italica' are among the other P. nigra. Leo and I have asked before if there could be a separate grouping of the Italica's as well as the Fagus sylvatica 'Atropunicea' (= Purpurea), but Tim has not made this possibility.

Look for the heightrecords of P. nigra, the tallest is a Italica of 42 m (137.8 ft) wich I measured in France last year.

In New Zealand there have been measured (with laser) taller ones, I think up to 45 or 46 m.

Jeroen

The photos at the gardenweb link look to me more like 'Plantierensis' than 'Italica'.

Here are three trees in my local park that I'm sure are genuine 'Italica'; the tallest was about 28m tall when I measured it (Suunto clinometer), though it is claimed 35m by TROBI (which it very clearly isn't!). All three had been in poor health for a long time, and all three died between 2006-2010.

Here are a couple of typical 'Plantierensis' in the same park; compare the broader crown, and far better health. These are much younger trees, just over 20m tall. Edit: just noticed TROBI claims 31m for one of these. Stercus taurinum!

For anyone not familiar with it, 'Plantierensis' is a cross between 'Italica' and native NW European P. nigra var. betulifolia; it inherits its tolerance of the cool UK summers from the latter parent. The vast majority of fastigiate poplars in N Europe are now 'Plantierensis'; true 'Italica' has become decidedly rare.

Con, the three trees that you think were Italica, are these photos with die back or were they this slim originally?

The Poplars at the Museum Gardens in York look more like Plantierensis although they are clearly labelled 'Populus Nigra var Italica'. They may have been identified by some local expert but the expert may still be wrong. I will have to photograph them next time I visit to get an identification on here from Kouta, yourself, Jeroen and others.

I have looked through the Populus Nigra listed on this site but have not had time to look at every single page. I didn't come across any Nigra var Italica so must not have clicked on the right pages.

I have been sent some info about Populus Nigra var Italica from a Tree Registry source when I checked my emails.

The Lombardy Poplar in the Museum Gardens in York, North Yorkshire was 26 metres tall when measured in 1989. With the growth rate of the Lombardy Poplar, can we speculate what likely height it would be now 23 years later.

The tallest Lombardy Poplar in Britain is one of 38 metres on an estate near Loch Ness, far to the north of the usual area where the Lombardy grows well. The Plantierensis is now rare in Britain although seems to be the common form in Cardiganshire, Wales. From this, it is likely that the York tree is correctly labelled and is Populus Nigra var Italica.

Hi Rob - "the three trees that you think were Italica, are these photos with die back or were they this slim originally?" - they've always been slim, even when they were a bit healthier when I first saw them (tho' they've never been really healthy). The person who says 'Plantierensis' is rare is wrong, it is by far the commonest fastigiate poplar in Britain*.

* e.g. here: "All the fastigiate P. nigra examined by GH in Crams. and Glam. has proved to be 'Plantierensis'. 'Italica' appears to have been on the wane throughout the century as a planted fastigiate poplar. In fact, Cansdale et al. (1938) reported that of the fastigiate Lombardy-poplar specimens received for confirmation only 18 proved to be 'Italica' with about 45 'Plantierensis'. Similarly, the remaining trees planted half a century ago in 1945 along Whitchurch Common in Cardiff by the American Forces stationed in the area are all 'Plantierensis'."

Hi all,

today the site has been updated to allow indicating what the exact measurement method was that was used to obtain a height measurement.

Height measurments are often far from the truth (time and again it has been shown that even official measurements in books are often higher then in reality). That's why in the height records list, only tree measurements labeled with the flag "exact" are taken into account.

Up until now, everybody was able to freely set the "exact" flag directly. This is now not possible anymore.

Now the site has been changed so the measurement method needs to be provided.

The options are:

• I don't know

• Measurement taken from book, in which the exact measurement method is not elaborated

• Measurement taken from info sign near tree, on which the exact measurement method is not elaborated

• Estimate based on experience

• Laser with Sine method (for example Nikon Forestry 550 laser ranger)

• Clinometer or tangent style (laser) hypsometer

• Climbing with direct tape drop

• Measurement with a stick of known size

• Measurement on a photo

• Other

The site will set the "exact" flag automatically based on the selected option.

Only lasermethods with the sine method and tape drop measurements are currently seen as "exact" measurements.

A FAQ page with more explanation on the different height measurement methods will be added soon.

I have set the measurement method for the existing 3011 height measurements as good as I could (measurements from a book set to "Measurement taken from book, in which the exact measurement method is not elaborated", measurements of which I know were done with a "sine" laser to "Laser with Sine method (for example Nikon Forestry 550 laser ranger)", tape drop measurements to "Climbing with direct tape drop", other to "I don't know". Of course, it is always possible to edit your own measurements and update the measurement method if necessary.

Kind regards and looking forward to feedback,

Tim

Good idea, though I think it would be valuable to have an extra category of 'near-exact', where measurements can have a high confidence to be within ± 1% (i.e., within a metre in a 50 metre tree: more than 49.5m, less than 50.5m). This would apply to narrow-crowned trees (mainly conifers) with a very clear top point and measured by clinometer, but not to other measurement methods (sticks, photos, etc., where errors may be ± 10% or more) or casual estimates, or to clinometer measurements of trees where the top is not very clear.

I notice at the moment that only exact measures are included in the species tables; I think it would be fair to include near-exact measures as well.

Hi Conifers,

Indeed with clinometers and hypsometers (with tangent method) straight conifers can be measured quite good. But there is the risk of not seeing the leaning of the trees. Also, when we should give measurements with these instruments a category of "near exact" it should bring in a lot of bad measurements. Especialy broadleaf trees but also flat crowned cedars and pines can easily be greatly overmeasured by persons not knowing how to use the instrument. Very often mismeasurements of 5 to 10 % are found.

What we (Tim, Kouta Räsänen, Leo Goudzwaard and I) strife for is that at this website only really reliable hightmeasurements are given. You should search at the website of ENTS (now NTS) and ask the American experts on heightmeasurements like Robert Leverett, Will Blozan, Michael Taylor and others what they think about measurements with clinometers only. They don't take them serious anymore. The ENTS guys rightly only allow sine-based measurements or climbing with tape-drop.

I have seen lots of mismeasurements with clinometer even by experienced measurers. I used a Suunto clinometer for 3½ years before I bought a laser. Leo used it much longer.

While all that time I was in intensive contact with the ENTS, I was aware of the risks of this method and tried to measure as exact as possible: from at least two different angles, from different distances, etc. Still with the laser I found some of my clinometer measurements were not good.

So we don't want to stimulate new measurers to use tangential methods. You can use a clinometer very good in combination with a simple laser, wich only measures the distance to a certain top and a calculator for the math.

So with the clinometer / hypsometer measurements it is difficult to know if they are good / reliable.

And who decides this?

Regards,

Jeroen

Actually, a hand-held sine-method laser forms the "near-exact" category. Strictly speaking, only a sine-method laser attached to a tripod and tape measurement are truly exact. What makes a distinction between all these methods and the others, is that with the above mentioned methods you can forget all believing and estimating. With tangent methods, you believe (or hope) the tree is vertical enough or you estimate the projection of the top on the ground etc. Keeping this distinction we also encourage measurers to change to the laser world.

Tim, I think it would be good to add device examples to the tangent style hypsometer category. At least Forestor Vertex, as it is very much used by European forestry professionals, and all the professionals don't seem to know what kind of device it is. Once a respected professional wrote me his laser measurement of the Kirnitzschklamm Spruce was two metres lower (57 m) than mine (59.2 m). I then asked which instrumend he used and he answered Vertex (it is not laser but ultrasonic instrument, operating in the tangent method). The explanation is that the spruce is leaning away from the measuring point. You could also add there Impulse Forest Pro, which is laser but needs a reflector, so operating in the tangent method. Probably all the foresters don't know what is sine method. (Remember your experience in Sonian forest.)

Kouta

Tim and I have planned to make instructions about heightmeasuring. There are very good instructions at internet of the ENTS / NTS group, but these seem to be a bit to complicate for this forum, while to much talking about mathematics and giving many formulas. We should make a rather simple basis information and some extra information for those who want to have all explanation.

So I hope we can have the instructions within some weeks at this website.

Jeroen

Hi !

I have a ask :

When I proceed to a measure with the laser Nikon 550A S, I target the top and often I must do a serie of measures on the target top to get the finish real result.

I noticed that I must always targeting a litlle over the top to have a good result, it's maybe because I was not very stable or it's the configuration of the machine ?

Anyone had already note this observation ?

Sisley,

Yes, that is the disadvantage of the 550 in comparison with the old 440, that we have already discussed here: 550's laser beam is wider than that of the 440. If you point at the very top, the lower part of the beam hits a part of the tree a bit under the top and you get a height slightly lower than the actual height of the tree. Therefore you have to point a bit above the top: then the lowest part of the beam hits the very top. Ideally so. I have never found the not-very-narrow beam a problem. I first point clearly above the top, push the button, then point a little bit lower, push the button again, again a bit lower etc. until I get a reading. Then I repeat this procedure multiple times. Jeroen said, at the best the mean of 10 readings should be accepted.

Kouta

Thank.

Yes,it's not very disturbing,it's just the beginning of the utilisation to this laser and as I would have good steps, I had ask this question.

If possible (or could we make this standard practice), could I also suggest that when taking full length photographs of trees for this site, could a human figure of preferably known height also be included somehow in the photograph whether family, friend or complete stranger coerced into posing. For example, the Ash tree/s at Kelheim in the photograph below, without something for reference it is very difficult to have any appreciation for the height of these trees. They could be spindly trunks and trees of a much lesser height, without something for reference it is extremely difficult to appreciate. Human figures cannot be used for accurate height measurement but they do give a good appreciation of trunk diameter and in distance photos, a good appreciation of the height and size.

When doing that, I would advice that the person who's there for scale, stands next to the tree, instead of in front of the tree. If a person is in front of the tree, then that person is closer to the camera and the person's size is exaggerated. This way the tree does not stand out that well.

Kind regards,

Tim

Rob & Tim,

Good points from both of you. I try to remember.

Kouta

If possible while in compagny this is a nice suggestion.

Jeroen

Like this one I presume?

Only of real use if one knows how tall the person is though!

Well, this is actually a picture where the person is not at the same distance to the camera as the tree. The person is in a plane further away, which makes the person look smaller compared to the tree. This is an optical effect that makes the tree look bigger. This makes great pictures, but makes them useless for size estimations.

It is an optical effect that I also use sometimes to be honest. Kneeling down next to the tree is another one which favors the tree.

Example of images where the person is at a good location (not in front or behind the tree)

Some examples with the person (me) kneeling:

Kind regards,

Tim

"It is an optical effect that I also use sometimes to be honest. Kneeling down next to the tree is another one which favors the tree."

And third is placing a child next to the tree.

Kouta

Hi !

I make often pictures with an person near the tree, and at least a serie of three (ex: the tree in his integral, the trunk in his low height and a picture of the trunk to the first branches.)

When I'm alone I bring a tripod but I hav'nt telecommand for remote triggering, just 12s for run..

Some great photos of trunks posted, impressive trees.

Con, yes you don't always have the exact height measurement of the person but in the vast majority of cases you are not dealing with someone 8 feet or even 7 feet tall or someone 3 feet tall. The vast bulk of people in photos will fall between heights of 5 feet and 6 feet, a few abit taller. It is possible also to make a good estimation of height from the/a photo. The person (presuming it is a lady, looks like a lady facially, no offence if it isn't-PC is a nightmare everywhere these days, laughs)in the photo that you posted has longish legs but doesn't look exceptionally tall or short. I would estimate 5' 8''/5'9'' for her, certainly looks more than 5'2'' for example. For the purposes of appreciating the height of a tree, not accurately measuring it, this estimation of the person's height is good enough. That is a fine tree trunk in the photo with the person Con, the plate on the trunk is not clear anough, what is it?

I agree that where possible, the person should be standing next to the tree and not in front or behind it.

Very fine Oak that you are kneeling next to Tim, where is this tree growing?

Dear Rob,

Search somewhat at this site, at Quercus roburhttp://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/world-quercusrobur/ and you get the largest oaks.

The Ivenack Oak is easy to find as well as the Ekebyhov oak!

and if you like change it to the tallest as well:

http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/world-quercusrobur/hd1

Regards, Jeroen

Hi Rob - he's a boy, not a woman! Easier to see if you look at some of mrgreen's other pics (e.g. here, here) that he also appears on. I'm guessing 16 or 17, so at or near mature height, but he may be younger, and shorter, I'm not good at telling. If he's just 14 or so, then he's smaller, and the trees less huge than they look. Does anyone know mrgreen well enough to ask?

(edit) Oh, the tree is (supposed to be) a Black Poplar Populus nigra. I'm not 100% sure, from the bark it may be a hybrid P. × canadensis - though its map location looks like natural or at least semi-natural riverine forest (which would favour its being real P. nigra). This one has more typical true P. nigra bark.

Western Red Cedar 4227, what a great trunk base, it almost looks as if the bark has been stripped from the trunk. What is the small tree growing out of it's base in the foreground with it's roots wrapped around the Cedar base? Looks like something out of 'Lord of the Rings'.

The Sitka Spruce also has a great trunk, very impressive.

Rob,

Quinault Lake Cedar is almost dead. There is only a narrow strip of live bark left, not visible in the photo. The small tree is western hemlock (Tsuga heterophylla). They very often grow on the side of a big tree.

Kouta

Hallo Han,

Op het bordje staat: "Chêne rouvre". Dat wil zeggen "wintereik"! Dit geldt waarschijnlijk voor beide eiken in het forêt de Senonches.

Groeten, Jeroen

Ik heb erop gegokt dat Han geen bezwaar zou maken en heb de soort gewijzigd naar wintereik. Het staat Han uiteraard helemaal vrij alsnog te protesteren.

Groeten,

Tim

Mooi Jeroen, dat je de meetgegevens zo paraat hebt.

Hoi Tim,

De metingen van deze boom staan deels verkeerd geplaatst, ik wilde ze goed zetten, maar dit lukt mij niet.

De meting van 8,00 m moet eraf, zoals Erwt4 aangeeft was dat een slechte meting. De meting van 7,24 m is op 1,50 m hoogte gedaan, door mijn inbreng is deze bij 0,00 m beland. Op 0,0 m hoogte is de boom niet gemeten. De meting van Frank Moens heb ik erop gezet vanuit het boek, is wellicht een oudere meting, vraag ik hem nog. Die van Wim Brinkerink staat wel goed.

Groeten, Jeroen

Hallo Jeroen, ik heb de metingen zoals gevraagd aangepast.

Groeten,

Tim

http://www.treecouncil.ie/championtrees.html

This is an interesting page, very. Two trees are vying for the tallest at the moment, the 57 metre Sitka Spruce at Caledon, County Tyrone and the now 57 metre Douglas Fir at Powerscourt, Co Wicklow.

http://www.ifpra2010.lcsd.gov.uk/download/paper/christy.pdf

This is another interesting file, photos of the 57 metre Douglas Fir, the 'Hungry Tree' London Plane devouring a metal park bench at Kings Inn, Dublin, the 44 metre Black Poplar at Borris House, Co Carlow, the 37 metre tallest Oak the list goes on.

Rob,

The latter address does not work.

Kouta

Hello Kouta, it doesn't work for me either now. Try this on:

www.google.co.uk

type '57 metre Sitka Spruce, Caledon, Co Tyrone' into search, it comes up as the second result.

Thanks Rob, I found it. Interesting article.

I hope you can go to measure the "44-metre poplar" when you have got your Nikon!

Kouta

The 44 m tall poplar is actually not a black poplar, Populus nigra, but a black Italian poplar, P. x canadensis 'Serotina'. I think it was heightmeasured by Aubrey Fennell with a clinometer. David Alderman of the Tree Register last October said he planned to go to Ireland with a laser to update many heightmeasurements. As I have measured several P. x canadensis of 40 to 41.7 m in the Netherlands I think we will find 44 m some day.

Jeroen

Hi Jeroen - on the subjest of poplar identities, what do you think of this one? I'm suspecting it too is P. × canadensis 'Serotina', not P. nigra as tagged.

Well,

While it is a famous tree in Germany that is well known by many tree-people, we could ask some dendrologists in the country. I know some of them and will ask what they think. Some of the photos do think of P. nigra, some others more of P. x canadensis 'Serotina' or 'Marilandica'.

Jeroen

Thanks! I'll be interested to hear. If it is P. × canadensis, with a planting date of 1808 it has to be 'Serotina' (pre-1750) or an un-named clone, as 'Marilandica' (1816) didn't exist then.

Kouta - Rob's link (above) that didn't work contains a typo; it should read: http://www.ifpra2010.lcsd.gov.hk/download/paper/christy.pdf

Tim, Ik krijg geen gegevens over omtrek geüpload. Weet jij er al van? Het is sinds de meetgegevens voor de hoogte zijn aangepast. Ik viunk dat deel aan en laat de hoote open.

Hallo Tim,

Zojuist heb ik het geprobeerd met Google chrome. Dat is wel gelukt.

Hallo Wim, het was me inderdaad al medegedeeld. Ik ontwikkel de site in Chrome dus het was mij bij het testen niet opgevallen dat er iets niet werkte in Internet Explorer. Het is nu iets aangepast zodat het ook in IE zou moeten werken.

Groeten,

Tim

http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/what-we-do/news/view-page/item756331

I wondered if this was common knowledge on the forum? There is interesting footage of the tree being climbed in the link at the bottom. Conifers, do you think that your Grand Fir at Kyloe could be slightly taller than this tree, what degree of accuracy was your measurement?

This is new to me, very nice but to be expected. I was in the Lake District in 2009 and saw several tall conifers in the forest near the s.e. shore of Bassenthwaite Lake, but had not yet a laser. With a Suunto clinometer it was hard to measure the trees (grand fir and Douglas fir) at a slope, they were up to over 50 m.

Jeroen

"Conifers, do you think that your Grand Fir at Kyloe could be slightly taller than this tree ..."

No; that's taller than the one I measured. The Kyloe tree is very straight and with a slender top, so I'm pretty confident in the accuracy of my measurement even though done with a Suunto clinometer rather than laser.

http://www.treeblog.co.uk/viewpost.php?id=119

I wondered what the members on here think about the possibility that Oaks measuring 64 metres to 70 metres may once have existed?

No, I don't think the calculations made to think these oaks were 70 and 64 m tall were right. Perhaps in the tallest oak diameter and circumference were confused. Also to think that the trees had to be twice as tall as the known piece of trunk seems very speculative. Personally I think in the past trees of Quercus robur an Q. petraea will not have been much taller than now: 40 - 44 m seems to be the maximum everywere. I hope to visit the Forêt de Bercé in France this spring. There are reported sessile oaks of up to 50 m. I am very curious if in fact there will be oaks in this forest of over 45 m.

The tallest measured oak in Bialowieza (43.6 m) is not much older than 150 years. The oldest oaks of Bialowieza, perhaps over 400 years, often had some dieback in the top. So I don't expect that the oldest oaks will be much taller than trees of 150 - 200 years.

By the way: tallest oak confirmed by laser in the USA is a Cherrybark oak, Quercus pagoda, in Congaree Swamp, South Carolina, of 48.8 m (160 feet), measured by Will Blozan. But: even in the USA there are left very few virgin forests.

Regards, Jeroen

Wainwright's claim looks to be based on the (false) assumption that the trunk's taper was constant from base to top, which of course it wouldn't be.

Hallo,

Sinds zomer 2011 zijn wij in het bezit van een eilandje met een Sequoia erop. Deze zou ongeveer in 1998 geplant zijn. De takkendoorsnee (dus niet de stam ) is 4 meter en hij zal ongeveer 6 meter hoog zijn. Sinds een paar weken vertoont de boom bruine takken (en dit is niet alleen aan de onderkant van de boom. Is dit iets om zorgen om te maken of trekt dit straks weer bij. Zou het vorstschade kunnen zijn of staat hij te nat (met voeten in grondwater) Moet/kan ik er iets aan doen?

Sequoia kan, in vergelijking tot de meeste groenblijvende bomen, behoorlijk goed tegen een hoge grondwaterstand. Maar ze zijn in België en Nederland, zeker als ze nog jong zijn, niet altijd even goed bestand tegen onze winters.

Ik vermoed dat je boompje dus eerder last heeft van de vorstschade. Ik zou me er dus geen zorgen om maken als ik jou was.

Het is ook niet ongewoon dat sequoia's gevoelig donkerder (echter niet ros) worden tijdens de winter.

Groeten,

Tim

Ik heb inmiddels ook 2 foto's toegevoegd. Ze zijn ongeveer 2 weken na elkaar gemaakt.

Dit is een Sequoiadendron, geen Sequoia. En die is minder goed bestand tegen natte voeten dan Sequoia. Bovendien heeft die niet zo gauw last van de vorst. Het zou me dus niet verbazen als dit probleem te maken heeft met een te natte standplaats.

Hello Owen, I have been looking at your photos and noticed your location, Hampshire-do you live anywhere within reasonable striking distance of Haselmere and Polecat Copse? I visited a while ago whem my sister lived in Surrey and before I purchased a digital camera. I took some photos on a cheap mobile phone and they came out very poor quality. There are some wonderful trees up that valley, I can still see the two big Western Hemlocks, the mighty 53 metre Douglas Firs and the several big Sequoiadendrons including 'King Kong'. It would be great if someone else could visit and take some photos and some height measurements? It would be easier I expect before the leaves appear on the trees as the undergrowth is quite dense.

www.geograph.org.uk/Snippet/3067

No takers on offering anymore info or photos about Polecat Copse but some more photos of the trees there. Some impressive trees when I visited, would love to know about the heights of more of the trees.

Ik ben net terug van een kort uitstapje in Marrakech. Degenen die mij inmiddels een beetje kennen weten dat ik altijd op zoek ben naar het bijzondere, het afwijkende en het nieuwe. Ik heb dat ook in Marokko gevonden. Er is daar een gebied ten zuiden en westen van Marrakech, waar de zogenaamde Arganboom groeit. Deze is belangrijk voor het landschap en sowieso voor de biotoop, omdat de verwoestijning door deze boom wordt verhinderd. Er zijn echter een aantal bijzonderheden met deze boom. Allereerst is de vrucht van de boom een belangrijk economisch item. er wordt olie voor verschillende doeleinden van gemaakt. Olie om te bakken, olie in de cosmetica wereld en in de massages. Een interessant product. Daarnaast vinden geiten deze vruchten belangrijk en klimmen in de bomen om ze op te eten. Voorzover ik kan achterhalen komen deze bomen alleen in dit gebied voor. Ik wil jullie graag deelgenoot maken van deze bijzondere bomen. Als Marokko wordt toegevoegd, zal ik foto's en wellicht een filmpje uploaden.

Groetjes

Wim Brinkerink,

9 maart 2012.

Nice to see them!

Did you get a chance to see the endangered endemic Moroccan Cypress Cupressus atlantica in the Oued-n-Fiis valley? Or any Araar Tetraclinis articulata?

Ai..., you make me feel embarrased. But on the other hand I was not at an exclusive tree-trip there. My wife goes very far in following me when I want to see a tree somewhere. I can even persuade her to take side on the picture. I didn't give it a lot of effort to see them all. I was glad to have found the Argantrees !!.

Nevertheless thank you for your reaction. Perhaps next time, alltough I don't think I will go there again.

Hi Wim, I'll add Morocco when time permits.

Kind regards,

Tim

Hoi Tim,

Would be nice if you can make it possible,. The Argantrees are nice. Marocco sucks and is a very nasty country with nasty people and not very friendly for tourists, but the Argantrees are ok.