danke für deine Zeilen. Ja die Quercus robur 'Pectinata'ist offensichtlich richtig. Das sieht man eindeutig an den Blättern. Die Sorbus aria habe ich trotz längerem Suchen nicht gefunden. Habe immer nach den Merkmalen ausgeschaut.
Bei der Feld-Ulme habe ich auch lange überlegt, nach Blattvergleich mit der Literatur. Bin hier auch unsicher! Das wäre dann hier auch eine Rarität.
Bei der Fagus sylvatica 'Asplenifolia' habe ich keine Ahnung. die Blätter waren von unten durch den Wind nicht gut zu erkennen. Hier fehlt mir auch noch die Erfahrung!
Ein weiteres Schild für eine angebliche Rot-Eiche ist m. E. offensichtlich auch falsch. Habe dem Baum deshalb keine Beachtung geschenkt.
Und wichtig für mich, ich befasse mich seit längerer Zeit mit den Bauten von Ludwig Persius, auch den Nachweis für Persius als Architekt für den Bau des Gutshauses habe ich in der entsprechenden Literatur nicht gefunden.
In dem Park stimmt also so Einiges nicht ;-(. Die Exoten stehen hier oft eng neben den Einheimischen und sind damit schwierig zu fotografieren. Der Park ist aber sehr reizvoll und ich werde nach Kontakt mit dem "Verein zur Erhaltung der Gutsanlagen Dahlen" versuchen die offenen Fragen zu klären und auch auf jeden Fall wieder hin fahren, hoffentlich bei fotofreundlichem Wetter.
Die Donau ist zurück in ihrem Bett und ich habe die ersten Baumaufsuchungen hinter mir. Ich bin zu einigen Erkenntnissen gelangt, die ich teilen möchte, da sie bei anderen gefluteten Gebieten in Deutschland, Tschechien oder Ungarn ähnlich sein werden.
Soweit ich es derzeit beurteilen kann, sind alle großen (registrierten) Bäume im überfluteten Gebiet noch vorhanden.
Aber die Maße stimmen großteils nicht mehr, aus folgenden Gründen: Der umgebende Boden ist bei manchen Bäumen erhöht (um bis zu 2 Meter) und bei manchen regelrecht ausgewaschen. (um bis zu 1 Meter) daher ist die Messbasis nicht mehr dieselbe wie noch vor 14 Tagen. Als Beispiel die Bäume bei Fischamend:http://www.monumentaltrees.com/de/aut/niederosterreich/wienumgebung/4788_donau/9669/
Das Maß bei 0 ist nicht mehr vorhanden, da sich der Boden um ca. 30 - 50 cm gehoben hat. Das Maß bei 1,30 ist jetzt bei ca. 90 cm. Trotzdem ist dieser Umfang nicht mehr 8,02m sondern 8,19m. Ich gehe davon aus, daß dieser Baum nicht so stark gewachsen ist im Laufe der letzten 6 Monate, sondern nur (wie andere auch) sich mit Wasser vollgesogen hat.
This summer I will surf in California, not just on the waves of the Pacific Ocean but in the Coastal Redwoods Parks and in Groves of Giant Sequoias in the Sierra.
List of the places I will visit
Locations on Coast:
- Santa Barbara, biggest Ficus of North-America
- Big Sur, Pfeiffer State Park;
- Carmel, Point Lobos;
- Santa Cruz, Big Basin Redwoods State Park;
- San Francisco, Muir Woods;
- Guerneville, Armstrong Redwoods State Park;
- Leggett, Frank and Bess Smithe Grove – Smithe State Natural Reserve;
- Avenue of the Giants;
- Weott, Humboldt Redwoods State Park, Montgomery Woods;
- Piercy, Lilley Redwood Park – Fraternal Monarch o World Famous Tree House;
- Eureka, Sequoia Park;
- Orik, Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park;
- Crescent City, Redwood National Park – Del Norte Redwoods State Park – Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park.
Locations on Sierra:
- Calaveras of the Big Trees;
- Toulomne Grove;
- Yosemite Valley;
- Mariposa Grove;
- Nelder Grove;
- Sequoia National Forest;
- Big Stump Grove;
- General Grant Grove;
- Converse Basin Grove;
- Redwood Mountain Grove;
- Lost Grove;
- Giant Forest, General Sherman Tree;
- Muir Grove;
- Atwell-East Fork Grove;
- Inyo National Forest – Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest;
- Mojave Desert - Joshus Trees.
I've opened a page in Facebook, I will send every day at least one shot from the Tour. Please Join it!
>>> https://www.facebook.com/GionaDelleSequoie
Sons of the trip will be a long reportage for the italian newspapaer La Stampa (Turin) and a new book titled "Jonas of the Sequoias".
«And so Lord created giant sequoias, at the end of the sixth day, Lord created biggest trees that Men could see on Earth, so high to touch the sky and so huge not to be comparable with fishes living in the depths» [Tiziano Fratus]
Good luck Tiziano. I'm also going to the Sierra Nevada range in California in September, so you can also expect new images from me too :) People who know me, know I'm a giant sequoia fanatic.
Yes indeed. Someone of our Spanish editors keeps adding new tree species by putting the Spanish name in the "genus" box, and the full scientific name in the "species epiphet" box. This causes cleanup work for me every time, and there might be a delay of one to two days between the registration and my cleanup work, as you noticed.
Enjoying England despite the bad weather. Seen marvellous trees, seen marvellous locations, spoken marvellous people. Pity that internet-connections are horrible. Cannot upload much. I will do so in a week or two. Be prepared. England is stunning.
Wim
PS I am bnt interested in figures but in quality. So imnages and elderness and not heigth
Yes it's a fantastic tree. I was here in 2009 and didn't have the courage to go in and ask permission to see the tree. It is on private grounds you know. I still regret that. But now i went in and the tenants were very helpfull and showed me to the exact place of the tree. It is really a fabulous tree.
jesusmorcillo123, op 2013-06-15 23:56:46, gewijzigd op 2013-06-16 00:00:33, zei:
Después de maravillarme con el algarrobo milenario que descubrí hace un par de semanas en Sant Joan de Moró.
Eureka!!! resulta que no solo no es el mas viejo del termino municipal de este pueblo, si no que a escasos quinientos metros, hay uno mas viejo, con 7,70mts de perímetro, medido a un metro y medio del suelo.
Si tenemos en cuenta que el crecimiento del algarrobo es similar al del olivo y que las medidas del olivo, para considerarlo milenario, son que mida más de tres metros y medio de perímetro, medido a una distancia de 1,3mts del suelo, resulta que en una misma finca y la colindante, existen más de diez algarrobos milenarios. No quiero yo pensar lo que puede albergar este maravilloso termino municipal, aun para mi por descubrir.
Si no estoy equivocado, creo que no, por lo que he buscado a fondo en internet, en Sant Joan de Moró están en buenas condiciones, pese a estar algunos un poco descuidados, los algarrobos más viejos del mundo. Todo un honor para este pueblo en que los algarrobos podrían terminar siendo una de sus señas de identidad.
Los romanos ya cultivaron aquí algarrobos y olivos y desde entonces han sido la base de la economía local que junto a los almendros sostuvo al pueblo hasta la llegada de los azulejos ceramicos.
Junto al antiguo camino que discurría desde Mas de Flors a L´Alcora quedan los restos de una villa romana con sus termas, como prueba de su asentamiento por estos lugares.
jesusmorcillo123, op 2013-06-11 22:42:38, gewijzigd op 2013-06-16 00:05:20, zei:
Algarrobo milenario a menos de un kilometro de sant Joan de Moró. El termino municipal de este pueblo alberga seguramente algunos de los algarrobos mas antiguos del mundo. Rodeando a estos ejemplares existen un gran numero de algarrobos tambien milenarios, si nos atenemos a las medidas perimetrales de ellos.
Anyone affected by the torrential rains and flooding which hare hitting central Europe at the moment, hopefully not? For once we have been having lovely settled, warm, sunny weather over here for the last few weeks after all the deluges and floods that we have had over the last few years. In my own opinion, instead of wasting billions on space exploration, Mars landings and all the other ego boosting rubbish, the money should be spent on developing some sort of global satellite system that could somehow control the world's weather, pressure patterns. Hurricanes could be dispersed by filling the low pressure, low pressures could be filled to prevent too much rain in other places. Low pressures could be sent to drought hit regions of Africa to give them proper harvests and end hunger, nice high pressures could be sent to us lot in Northern Europe. The highs could be steered to a position wanted to prevent Scandinavian Highs forming and bringing those bitter easterlies like we had for all last spring. All the people in the world should start a campaign for this I think, something that could control the weather would be the single greatest thing in human history.
We had some local flooding for two days but our river is so small that there was not much damage. However, my son and I had a nice day in a park along the river. It was raining all the day, we had full rain gear, walkways were submerged by 10cm of water in places. Particularly my 3 y old son had great fun!
Kouta
Scholem Alejchem, op 2013-06-13 17:39:59, gewijzigd op 2013-06-13 17:40:38, zei:
Hello all
I am involved every day, because I am volunteering pushing the mud away from the houses. Most of the fishermen houses along "my" areas at the danube river are 1m under the highwatermark, so every furniture is crashed. The whole area is full of mud, some places more than 2m high.
I am everyx day outside, but it will need more than a year to bring the whole area to the same situation as 14 days ago.
Most of "my " registrated trees are still standing, but I have not seen all, because the danube is still high, that some ares are not available to meet by feet. (From Haslau to Regelsbrunn and from Wildungsmauer to Bad Deutsch Altenburg)
On MT, we favour height measurements to the average ground level ("mid-slope point"). 63.79m was the height to the highest ground level and 64.22m to the average ground level (Michael Spraggon e-mail, 13.6.13). Therefore I changed the height to 64.22m.
The tree is in the village of Arrete in the county of 'Pyrénées-Atlantique' (limit south-west of south-west France ).
It's possible that it was a error in measure, but not so important, 1-2 m. It's a tree climber who use his rope of 50 m from the top and he calculated the 5 m, distance missing to the ground.
bicri, op 2013-06-08 16:56:05, gewijzigd op 2013-06-15 09:35:26, zei:
ifs communs celui de gauche mesure une circonférence à 1.50 m de 4.40 mètres , sa hauteur est de 14 m son envergure de 12 mètres son âge de 250 années , celui de droite à 1.50 m mesure 3.40 m de circonférence sa hauteur est de 12 mètres , son envergure de 10 mètres son âge de 250 années.
Grant Hadwin realized too little, too late what logging was doing to the environment. His zeal for protest and reform was ill-conceived and in the process he sacrificed a Golden tree and a symbol of Haida tribes and the people of British Columbia's Queen Charlotte Islands
2. The Man Who Planted Trees: Lost Groves, Champion Trees, and an Urgent Plan to Save the Planet
Another true story about a man who had an NDE(Near Death Experience) and a vision in which he was told to save the Big Trees. If you don’t believe in NDE’s that’s OK. David Milarch’s story is compelling nonetheless. His vision was about cutting trimmings of the Big Trees for regrowth using and capturing the same DNA of these Big Trees. He ran a tree nursery all of his life out of Michigan. His training served him well but his own difficulties were his constant obstacles to his goals.
3. The Man Who Planted Trees
Jean Giono (Author), Michael McCurdy (Illustrator),
This is another old book by the same title. It’s 72 pages long and is also a classic book. This book inspired many people around the world to plant and grow trees. I haven’t read it yet but it’s on my list.
The modern true story of young botanists, amateur naturalists, and college kids that discover the California Redwoods. They examine research, climb and live in the trees to find out their magic. They end up discovering new worlds atop of these trees.
5. The Big Burn: Teddy Roosevelt and the Fire that Saved America
Another true story of the 1910 forest fire that burned throughout much of Washington, Idaho, and Montana. The thing that makes this an interesting read is the larger than life characters of Gifford Pinchot and Teddy Roosevelt. Reading about the fire is fascinating, the effects of the fire were incredible, and the fallout of environmental, social, national, and political effects were a galvanizing force for the National Parks.
'And now for something completely different'. Thought that I would put a photo of this on as it is ususual, not a tea plantation on a hillside in Sri Lanka or India but a hillside of Cherry Laurel looking very like a tea plantation in the water gardens.
This appears to be the new height record. Excellent!
Kouta
123RedRob, op 2013-06-11 17:26:08, gewijzigd op 2013-06-11 17:27:51, zei:
Hello Kouta, Willows are trees which this area of Yorkshire has in great abundance, I have found and measured loads already of c22 m but this is the tallest so far. The B&I record is 29.5 metres at Bishop Stortsford, Herts in 2001 so not far behind, how this 29 metre tree was measured? Owen has mentioned that the 26 metre Walnut that I measured is the tallest reliably measured, the B&I record is 27 metres and one of 30 metres was reported in Scotland in 1988 but the measurement method is not known.
Andre, do you live anywhere near a place called the Chateau of Vrigny? I have been searching to see if I can find any reference to the 55m Plane trees in France and instead have come across mentions in books of a Cedar of Lebanon which was reported as being 55 metres and 9 feet in diameter from 1881. I wonder if this tree or any other big ones have survived in this location? The websites on the web don't have great photos of the area.
123RedRob, op 2013-06-07 17:29:23, gewijzigd op 2013-06-07 17:31:18, zei:
This group of trees are the trees that I was referring to on the Nikon Forestry Pro thread. They were coppery burnt orange when I visited last a month ago so I think that they will be Populus Canadensis Robusta. I have made three visits for measuring sessions already but I think that I will have to stop yet again at some point. They are on private land with no public footpaths near so I cannot get really near them but even if I did I don't think the measuring position would be as good as this, the bases are hidden when viewed through the binoculars and I think so much of the base is definitely below the land level seen below them. As said, on every visit so far I get the same consistant and yet inconsistant results, many no measurements trying to hit the tips, most readings 35.8-36.2 but on my three visits I have also recorded at least two readings of 39-39.2 metres, twice on my visit today? It puzzled me at first but the consistancy of the inconsistancy is now possibly making sense. I am measuring from a down slope here, cannot see the bases properly but aiming at the bases of the trees that I can just see. There is foliage in front though, the bases are not clear in view. What can explain these consistant inconsistancies? Kouta once reported something like this? I think myself that the laser is penetrating through the front foliage of the Willows in front of the Poplar bases and this may be giving the c39 metre readings, my beam is coming in from an angle from above. The c35-36 metre readings the laser is hitting the Willows at the front and not penetrating, the Willows are in front of the Poplar trunk bases and what I am hitting is higher because my beam is coming in from above. It is the same experience that I had with the Sequoiadendron at Hebden Wood but I was measuring from below in that instance and it gave a higher reading than it should have done. The bases of these trees are hidden in the small river ravine and if these trees are 39.2 metres, I would have to assign abit more to account for this. I am going to have yet another go and if I get the same consistant inconsistancy, I think I will have to say this is what is happening and report this tree (tallest tip on left) as at least 39 metres and probably c40 metres.
Abit of a waffle on anyway but just interesting to report this unusual experience.
Can anyone identify the light green Poplar (it is a Poplar) to the left of the darker Robustas? I took some more photos of these but they have come out blurred? The height is pretty impressive whatever they are, a pretty clean view of the lower trunk base albeit still abit hidden by nettles and in the ravine top possibly.
When the base of the tree is hidden behind vegetation, the best way is to measure at the 1,3 or 2 metres or whatever meters, and then add (or subtract) this height to the top measurement; beware of the below 0-horizon reading in the lader, because it gives no negative in the screen.
Your explanation may well be correct. You should measure the tree like Leo explained. I measure almost all the trees with this method, even if the base is well visible, because there is always grass or something on the ground and the result is not exact if you shoot "somewhere" on the ground. You choose a visible point on the trunk or you can attach there a piece of paper or something and shoot it. Then you measure the height of the point with a tape from the up-slope point and the down-slope point and take the mean, which you add to the measured height from the point to the top.
Another explanation may be that your laser is shaking when you push the button, which gives a wrong angle.
Hello Kouta, Leo, I have used your techniques quite a few times ( even have photos of some of the Hebden Wood trees with bits of white paper pinned to the trunk) but I wear size 12 shoes so usually I am able to tramp all the grass and nettles that I can get to flat if I can get to the tree base, few can stand up to size 12s. I am also now very aware of the shake due to wind with these lasers when you press the button and try to visit trees on the least windy day (difficult in Britain) It has been a lovely period for the last couple of weeks, very little wind and warm sunshine, I have made hay. I also adapted my style for button pressing pretty quickly when I started using the laser, instead of pressing on the button which can cause movement I personally now roll my finger over the button which causes the least movement possible.
These Poplars are on private land and I don't know who owns the land (at the moment) so am not able to get to the bases to assess or stick abit of paper on. Through the binoculars parts of the trunk are visible behind the frontal willows and their foliage but maybe not clearly, these trees are verging on more difficult on the range of measuring. I do definitely think that measurements will vary depending on what the laser hits when aiming at vegetation in front of trees, the consistant inconsistancy with these is not a coincidence.
Karlheinz, Rainer and I will meet and measure trees on the 23th of June in the Exotenwald Weinheim, about halfway between Frankfurt and Karlsruhe, Germany. The Exotenwald is a 60 hectares forest arboretum with stands of Sequoiadendron, Metasequoia, Cedrus atlantica, Thuja plicata, Abies grandis, Calocedrus decurrens etc. Many stands are already 140 years old. Sequoiadendron has reached about 50-55 metres, we don't know yet exactly as the methods have been a bit obscure. But we are confident we will get good measurements in June.
The MT users are welcome! If you like to take part, please reply to this message or contact me.
Kouta
Jeroen Philippona, op 2013-05-31 21:37:39, gewijzigd op 2013-05-31 21:38:07, zei:
Nice meeting!
Although for Kouta it is an even somewhat longer distance, for me it is too far to travel in one day twice (over 400 km and 4 hours driving 2 times).
Hello Wim, where are you planning to visit in England, any tree spotting involved, hope so?
Your measuring expedition sounds good guys but just abit too far for me as well. I have visited Germany in the past in passing on a tour (always wanted to visit the Alps and Bavaria, Neuschswanstein Castle was superb, but being completely honest did not really enjoy it as I am a vegetarian and Germany and Austria are not great places for vegetarians I found.
You cannot have it all. I strongly advice you to not let your personal preferences obstruct your other intrests. I really like Germany,it's nature, it's hospitality and the menus in the cafés, restaurants and hotels. I also like these things in England. I think it is wise to stick to the positive and not get sour because there are some aspects of life in any culture you don't agree.
As for my trip to England, I will be in Dover for 2 nights (and off course in Kent therefore), 4 nights in London , 7 nights southwest of London and 7 nights in Stratford upon avon. (Northwest of London near Birmingham) I have gathered a load of information on trees and Woods and as my wife will let me.....I will come back with a load of inspiring tree-inventories.
If you are in the neighbourhood we will have a beer or so.
Hello Wim,(I do like your name Wim by the way, Wim Brinkerink really does roll off the tongue nicely) nothing about being sour, Germany and Austria have some beautiful countryside and very nice people but Yorkshire people have a saying, they call a 'spade a spade' don't pussyfoot about and tell the truth and I am one. I am not going to be liar, I tell the truth and call a spade a spade and in this case I have told the truth. If some of you guys come over here you would probably think the same with our food, Sisley for instance probably wouldn't think much to egg and chips or bangers and mash with the gourmet type food he may be used to in France (I imagine)
Wim, you probably have an itinerary already planned at the moment but I have studied up on alot of the trees on the Register and could give you some ideas if you like? I would love to see the B&I champion Aesculus Hippocastanum of 39 metres (this is probably on the conservative side as well as Owen always airs on the conservative side) near Arundel Castle for instance (visited Arundel about eight years ago but didn't know that this was here and wasn't measuring trees at that time either), Polecat Copse at Haslemere is also superb, the Douglas Firs will now be 55 metres plus as they were 54 a few years ago, it is a superb valley with Surrey's tallest trees. Some photographs of these trees would be great as well. Petworth Park also has some superb old Oaks and other trees.
Thank you for your tips. And don’t misunderstand me; I like it when you speak off your mind. I can handle it. I like it when people say what they think. The problem is that sometimes this communication on paper can lead to misunderstandings. Never mind. We can ask each other the exact intentions.
I will study what you suggest. I do not have a complete Itinerary yet. You know, my wife is there with me and I have to be flexible. If it were only me, it would be simple.
So my strategy is to have a lot of information and see at the moment which trees or woods I can visit. I want to keep my wife interested and not over ask her.
I do have a lot of books. For England, I have; Hidden trees by Archie Miles, Heritage trees by Stokes and Rodger, several books of Thomas Pakenham and off course Champion trees by Owen Johnson. I even have some very old books about walks in the woods written by Gerald Wilkinson.
I could fill a year with their suggestions. Nevertheless, I will give your suggestions some extra attention. But remember, I see a different focus here on MT. Some are especially in woods and height records; some are interested in form and eccentricity.
My aim starts with the image of the single tree. Trunk, bowl and photographic impact are the most important things for me.
Petworth Park I would say a definite for you Wim with your criteria, never visited myself but what I have been told about the place with it's old trees.
Some fine trees there, thanks for the links Jeroen. My sister used to live at Woking and many times have we driven down the narrow streets of Petworth but I never actually made a visit to the place. The Chestnuts are impressive, I took some very similar trunk photos of the Studley chestnuts so may upload some of them.
Nice to put a face to a name Tim.
Jeroen Philippona, op 2013-06-08 23:10:34, gewijzigd op 2013-06-08 23:15:15, zei:
Here two other photos of Tim: http://www.monumentaltrees.com/db/01/full/01011.jpg and http://www.monumentaltrees.com/db/04/full/04414.jpg . At this last photo with a group of tree measurers and - lovers lunching under the tallest known oak of Belgium after measuring by climbing the tallest known beech of the same country. At left Tim, beside him Marc Meyer, then some Dutch climbers and Belgian forest researchers, in front of the trunk Leo Goudzwaard and second from right Han van Meegeren, the named persons all very active at MT.
Jeroen
MoritzNagel, op 2013-06-09 21:08:22, gewijzigd op 2013-06-09 21:15:48, zei:
I was in Weinheim a few years ago. It's really worth the trip. Besides of the exotic trees, there was also a really big and tall common ash. And when you're in Weinheim, be sure to visit the castle and the old cedrus libani and ginkgos.
With another new user of the Forestry Pro it will be interesting to compare experiences. From my own experience, another note that I would like to add, report with the this laser (it is probably the same with all the lasers)is that if you use it heavily and continually, re-taking measurements uninterupted, it begins to give odd and inconsistant readings. I don't think that this is any fault with the laser but drain on the Lithium CR2 battery but it is something that wants remembering. I do tend to make multiple measurements with important trees and this is when I have noticed this. Let the laser go off and leave for a few minutes and it is fine again.
I have never used the 3 point measurement system.
The Distant Priority mode as said before, I am not convinced that this works through my own useage, the beam still hits and records from the first thing it hits I have found. I wouldn't trust it anyway.
Any other comments or experiences relating to this laser I would be interested to hear.
ich habe bei meinem Forestry Pro so etwas noch nicht bemerkt. Ich bin mir jetzt aber auch nicht ganz sicher, ob ich dich richtig verstanden habe. Was mir hinsichtlich Batterie aufgefallen ist. Meine war bereits nach knapp 5 Monaten leer. Beim Vorgängermodell, dem Forestry 550, hat bei mir die Batterie knapp ein Jahr gehalten.
I have not noticed anything with my Forestry Pro. But now I'm not quite sure if I understood you correctly. What struck me regarding battery. Mine was already after just 5 months empty. The previous model, the Forestry 550, for me, the battery has just held for a year.(Rainer)
Die gleichen Ergebnisse wie ich, habe meine ersten CR2 Batterie nicht lange und erwischte mich heraus, dass es so schnell abgelaufen, war ich nicht Transport eines Ersatz. Ich jetzt tragen zwei Ersatzteile. Ich habe eher eine Menge Kontrolle und mehrere Höhenbestimmung von Bäumen besonders die wichtigen tun und es macht die Batterie entladen, und es beginnt zu geben mis-Lesungen.
The same findings as myself, my first CR2 battery did not last long and caught me out it expired so quickly, I wasn't carrying a spare. I now carry two spares. I do tend to do alot of checking and multiple heighting of trees particulary the important ones and it does drain the battery and it starts give mis-readings.
vor ein paar Wochen war ich auf Baumtour. Als ich den ersten Baum messen wollte, stellte ich fest, dass die Batterie leer ist. Obwohl das Nikon erst knapp 5 Monate alt ist. Zum Glück habe ich in einem großen Lebensmittelladen gleich eine neue Batterie gefunden, so dass ich die Bäume doch noch messen konnte. Mir ist allerdings bei den letzten Messungen vor dem Ausfall nicht aufgefallen, dass die Batterie fast leer ist. Wird ja im Display eigentlich angezeigt.
Viele Grüße,
Rainer
123RedRob, op 2013-06-06 17:35:24, gewijzigd op 2013-06-06 17:36:20, zei:
A few weeks ago I was on tour tree. When I tried to measure the first tree, I realized that the battery is empty. Although the Nikon is only about 5 months old. Luckily, I immediately found a new battery in a large grocery store, so I still was able to measure the trees. I am, however, not noticed at the last measurement before the failure, the battery is almost empty. If yes actually displayed on the screen.
Agree with Rainer's comments here, there is a little battery visible in the viewfinder which is supposed to drop bars as the battery runs low but it didn't/doesn't do it on my laser, the battery/ies just expire suddenly without warning.
Vereinbaren Sie mit Rainer Kommentare hier, gibt es eine kleine grüne Batterie sichtbar im Sucher, die angeblich Bars fallen, wenn die Batterie zur Neige geht, aber es ist nicht / nicht tun es auf meinem Laser, die Batterie / n nur plötzlich verfallen Warnung
Jeroen Philippona, op 2013-06-06 20:36:28, gewijzigd op 2013-06-06 20:39:51, zei:
Yes, I should have warned you to take always a reserve battery with you. Indeed the laser rangefinder just stops working without warning at the screen. I had it the first time when I was on a measuring trip far from home and far from a shop.
To my experience the batteries work very different between 3 months and over a year, with rather intensive use.
I never experience very inconsistant results, but with very cold, winter weather it works less good.
best way to increase accuracy is to compare your laser measurements with tapemeasurements from a building. JPh and I noticed that we the douglas fir we measured 50-50.3 metres tall, was in fact after climbing and after tape-drop was only 49,75. So make at least 10 measurements on important tall trees, and disregard the maximum values, then make an average. Then, the results are reliable,
I am currently having a very interesting experience measuring a group of trees. They are on my way home from work when I visit a place called Selby and I have stopped and had several measuring sessions and I am getting the same consistant measurements but inconsistant measurements?! It sounds abit double dutch really, no offence intended, just a saying over here of confusion at times, but it isn't. I think I know what is happening really and it may be what Kouta? once reported when he made some measurements. They are significant trees as the height will pip the B&I record for this tree species.
When measuring these trees, the highest height you get is the apex tip on a great many occasions. This is why I sometimes get battery drain, hovering the laser + over the apex tip trying to hit it on the very end and ending up with multiple no-readings. The ranges I give for heights are usually a lower one which is a banker height at a solid part of the higher tip to the very apex tip attempts.
Leo Goudzwaard, op 2013-06-07 08:31:32, gewijzigd op 2013-06-07 11:42:57, zei:
I do not agree with this, it is for 100% a mistake and several people are just copying one opinion. 'Plantierensis' has a wider crown and easy to distinguish from Italica, and rare in the Netherlands. The named specimens in botanical gardens show real Plantierensis. Italica is already known from 1655 on a painting. Plantierensis originates only from 1884. Have a look at old paintings and photographs, they have the same crown shape as our modern Italica specimens.
A second characteristic is the buttressed stembase, clearly at Italica, not at Plantierensis.
The picture of the very slender poplar Conifers has posted as Italica is not the Italica clone, but most probably the 'Afghanica' clone: light grey stems, less buttressed and poorly growing in Northern Europe. Abundant in Turkey f.i. I have seen many of them.
Sorry Leo, but that is not correct. As long ago as 1938 (G S Cansdale, The Black Poplars), a detailed scientific survey of Black Poplars found that 'Plantierensis' greatly outnumbered 'Italica' in Britain at least, and since then the predominance of 'Plantierensis' has increased further as it is much healthier in the climate here. I see no reason for the Netherlands to differ in this. Cansdale remarked "Both varieties commonly pass under the name 'Lombardy Poplar' and are distinguished only by botanists, so that the superior numbers of the latter ['Plantierensis'] may well be due to its representing a more vigorous stock" (cited in W J Bean, Trees & Shrubs Hardy in the British Isles). As further evidence, Alan Mitchell found that most fastigiate Black Poplars in Britain have finely pubescent young shoots, proof of their being clones with some P. nigra var. betulifolia ancestry (i.e., 'Plantierensis').
The very narrow tree I posted was not 'Afghanica' (which I have also seen many of in Bulgaria and Turkey); the bark colour is darker than the photo suggests, and it was a male tree, as 'Italica' is, while 'Afghanica' is female. It was also buttressed at the base (not visible in the photo, hidden in shrubs).
I do not think the painting provides any useful evidence. There is no proof that it is the same clone as 'Italica', it is perfectly possible that more than one clone of fastigiate Black Poplar occurred in Italy.
Jeroen Philippona, op 2013-06-07 23:05:17, gewijzigd op 2013-06-07 23:05:45, zei:
While we done't seem to have 'betulifolia' in the Netherlands and probably more parts on the continent it could be that the fastigiate nigra poplars are different on the continent from the UK.
Photos of 'Plantierensis' I have seen from Leo as well as in Dutch books are different again from those of Conifers. Best there should be done some genetic research on different specimen.
"Best there should be done some genetic research on different specimen" - well, yes, of course, but where can we find €50,000 to get it done??
Leo Goudzwaard, op 2013-06-08 05:49:52, gewijzigd op 2013-06-08 07:55:37, zei:
As long as there is no genetic proof that we have been naming Italica wrong for ages, we should not change it. Again I have to state that this started as only one opinion, and no proof. Small differences in haires at young shoots are no proof and variable in many species and change over the season, as in Populus nigra. The variability in Ulmus for instance is the reason that Ulmus japonica proofed to be not a different species from U. davidiana. The most recent example: 2 days ago in Limburg we (4 botanists) found out that Anemone ranunculoides can be glabrous or pubescent, as also A. nemorosa is. Which is not correctly described in the Dutch Heukels Flora. And it is impossible that one tree clone can be replaced by another in a large part of Europe in such a short period, in the early 20th century. Plantierensis only ocurred for the first time in a nursery in 1884, it took them at least 10 years for breeding many specimen and 30 years to become young-mature trees. In 1938 there was a survey that all the Italica have changed and suddenly they were large trees? Then if I estimate this in a right way, it is only a period of 17 years for replacing. Italica was already abundant 100 years before 1884 and it was very good growing, not poorly at all.
I checked young shoots of 2 Italica specimen in Wageningen today: and they are glabrous.
"As long as there is no genetic proof that we have been naming Italica wrong for ages, we should not change it" — if that was the sole way of allowing determinations, then no changes would ever have been done from author's first descriptions until the last few years; we would still be talking about Pinus larix L., etcetera. Other evidence including morphology, disease susceptibility, etc., etc., is perfectly valid, and there is plenty of it.
"Again I have to state that this started as only one opinion, and no proof" — well-researched, and with abundant strong evidence.
"And it is impossible that one tree clone can be replaced by another in a large part of Europe in such a short period, in the early 20th century" — perfectly possible, with fast-growing, and often short-lived, poplars.
"Plantierensis only ocurred for the first time in a nursery in 1884, it took them at least 10 years for breeding many specimen and 30 years to become young-mature trees" — no; it was first offered for sale in 1884; the breeding and propagation of numbers for sale was completed by then.
"In 1938 there was a survey that all the Italica have changed and suddenly they were large trees? Then if I estimate this in a right way, it is only a period of 17 years for replacing" — no; 54 years. And the survey says nothing about the specimens checked being large.
"Italica was already abundant 100 years before 1884 and it was very good growing, not poorly at all" — it was not 'very good growing', but was, and still is, very susceptible to disease. W J Bean wrote (at least 7th ed., 1950, possibly earlier; repeated in 8th ed., 1976) "The true Lombardy poplar is held in less regard than formerly, and the reasons for its fall from grace is obvious enough, especially in country districts, where repeated attacks by the Marssonina fungus often kill the lower part of the crown, and also weaken the tree by causing premature leaf fall. It is almost a century ago* since the ill-health of the Lombardy was first remarked on, and it was then suggested that the clone was beginning to die of old age, but in fact it is disease that is the primary cause. To some extent the true Lombardy has been displaced by the healthier and more vigorous 'Plantierensis'. This is all to the good, but 'Plantierensis' has no title to the name Lombardy poplar or 'Italica', and only confusion can result if it is sold as such.".
* [i.e., well before 'Plantierensis' came into commerce]
"I checked young shoots of 2 Italica specimen in Wageningen today: and they are glabrous" — that is useful evidence; I tried to check several here but was defeated by the lowest branches being 4m up.
Tim is zijn website oorspronkelijk natuurlijk begonnen als een mammoetbomensite, op alle aspecten van de soort gericht, waaronder ook het kweken van jonge bomen. Later begon hij met MT, maar omdat hij daarop ook de oude site kopieerde, is dat aspect nog steeds aanwezig, inclusief een groot aantal jonge exemplaren.
It's curious that Owen Johnson's tree register doesn't mention this champion horse chestnut. Under the chapter Sussex (in Gazetteer) there is one mentioning "near Arundel; Arundel Castle, bull bay (Magnolia grandiflora) 12 x 64 in 1997, near town gate."
Nevertheless you've made me curious. Perhaps I will find time to visit it. Furthermore I see a big difference in English and continent tourism. In England they want money for every step you take (read every visit). That's not so in Germany and France. Is England more capitalistic or should I say market-oriented?
Wim
123RedRob, op 2013-06-06 15:53:24, gewijzigd op 2013-06-07 16:31:12, zei:
Meant to say, Arundel is a very nice place with alot of little crafty type shops and an impressive castle, I imagine Mrs B wouldn't mind have a wander about here.
As Rob told, the tallest horse chestnut near Arundel is in the book Champion trees (page 52 on top right) as well as in the members only section of the website of the Tree Register.
Thanks for your comment. And while I was starting to write this mail and saying that it doesn't have the proportions Rob suggested........it suddenly occured to me that Rob is more interested in height and it is a very high tree for a chestnut. !! The girth is 143 x 3,14 (143metres as the diameter)and the height is 39 metres. And that was in 2007. So I understand the enthusiasm of Rob.
Wim, if you do decide to visit would you be able to re-measure it if you can find it? It may have nudged to 40 metres as it appears to be in a ravine from the landranger map. Am I right in thinking that this is a European champion for Horse Chestnut, anyone know what the tallest for species is anywhere, world?
Thank you Wim, no pressure whatsoever but if you do make it that way, looking forward to seeing your photos and reading about your experience and results.
While I am intending to visit Southern England as well in July I may also visit Arundel. But as Owen lives in Sussex, he may very well measure the height of this Horse Chestnut himself again. What kind of laser does he use?
rumpala, op 2013-06-07 16:01:02, gewijzigd op 2013-06-07 16:02:40, zei:
Granit Oak (in Bulgarian: Гранитски дъб) is an English (Pedunculate) oak tree that grows within the boundaries of Granit village, Bulgaria.
The oak measures 2.38 m in diameter and 7.46 m in girth at waist level and reaches 23.4 m in height, but only eastern side branches remain alive. In March 1982 samples were taken with a pressler drill, from which it was estimated that the tree was 1637 years old. With an estimated germination date of 345 AD, it is the oldest tree in Bulgaria and one of the oldest in Europe.
In 1967 the Granit Oak was declared a protected tree and included in the list of the natural monuments of Bulgaria.
In 2010 the oak was featured prominently in a documentary "Live Eternity" (in Bulgarian: Жива Вечност).
i am sure it is a populus nigra . Allerdings glaube ich nicht das der umfang dieser schwarzpappel 8 meter beträgt.
Ich selbst habe mit Spannweite gemessen und bin draufgekommen das ich bei solchen umfängen meist um die 1 - 1 1/2 meter zu viel geschätzt habe. Ein Maßband und eine helfende person ist zu empfehlen :D
Ich habe immer ein 30m-Maßband dabei und schätze nicht drauflos, ohne Überprüfung, aber Du kannst es gerne überprüfen. Der Standort ist auch exakt vorgegeben und sogar im google-earth erkennbar.
Kennelijk weer een foutje van de hortus. Er staan twee meidoorns. Bij de één (deze) is aangegeven dat het om een tweestijlige gaat. 4 meter verder staat een éénstijlige. Ik zal het wijzigen. Binnenkort heb ik contact met de collectiebeheerder en zal het aankaarten.
je kunt het zien in de foto van de bloemen. Daar is maar een stijl zichtbaar, dus 100% zeker eenstijlige. Overigens kun je dat ook al aan het blad zien, heeft meer lobben dan de tweestijlige
There are no such plans. Measuring with the laser is not so easy, as the tree stands in dense undergrowth so from the meadow outside the bush it is difficult to get an exact height of the foot of the tree. We measured it several times as 50 and even 50.3 m with laser, but that was thinking the foot was at the same level as we in the meadow, but actually the tree stands between 30 and 50 cm higher.
From the path inside the small forest and only a few meters from the trunk it is difficult to hit the tallest top and we got never the best results.
But next time I am there I will try to measure it again with laser, to see if looks like it has grown taller. To confirm that somebody should climb it again.
bicri, op 2013-06-06 10:21:45, gewijzigd op 2013-06-08 16:33:37, zei:
Chêne pédonculé âge estime à 350/400 ans , hauteur 25 m environ ,circonférence à 1.30 mètres estimée à +- 7.00 mètres Il est impossible de réaliser une mesure précise car entre le côté sud et le côté nord de cet arbre , il y à un remblai servant de chemin , celui ci provoque un dénivelé d'un mètre soixante dix , (1.70 m côté sud au niveau des racines correspondent au niveau du remblai du chemin ) une mesure à 1.30 ne peut être réalisée que sur 1/3 du tronc , celle ci donne une valeur de 2.20 m .Il y a une vingtaine d'années des coupes anarchiques l'ont amputé de deux branches charpentières , l'an passé une branche a cédé(visible sur le cliché) elle mesurait 15 mètres son diamètre et touchait le sol son diamètre était de 0,50 mètres , et son poids estimé. à 3 tonnes ,
Pour donner une idée , la branche qui se trouve à droite de la photo an niveau de l'étoile évaluation se trouve à 3.00 mètres du sol.
Ich denke, daß viele von Euch die Situation an der Donau in Bayern und Österreich verfolgen. Ich bin fast jeden Tag vor Ort und bereite mich auf Arbeitseinsätze nach dem Rückgang der Fluten vor. Zurzeit ist es wichtig, den Wildtieren freien Auslauf an den Dämmen zu gewähren und Schaulustige abzuhalten in deren "Flucht-Gebiet" einzudringen
So wie es derzeit aussieht, sind viele Bäume umgeschmissen und mitgerissen worden. Vor allem in den Bereichen wo massiv abgeholzt wurde, sind die neuen Angriffsflächen von den Fluten dankend angenommen worden, daher sind nicht nur die geschnittenen sondern auch die restliche Baumriesen weg.
Wenn die Wege wieder halbwegs passierbar sind, werde ich eine Bestandsaufnahme starten, was allerdings ebenfalls einige Zeit in Anspruch nehmen wird.
ja das landschafftsbild wird sich " neu strukturieren " nachdem die fluten abgeklommen sind.
Wird sicher spannend sein ! Glaubst du ist das auland hinter dem hubertus damm auch überschwemmt?
Albern ist ja ziemlich unter Wasser ^^
Scholem Alejchem, op 2013-06-06 05:23:40, gewijzigd op 2013-06-06 08:48:23, zei:
Hallo, Albern ist nur vollgelaufen, fliesst aber nicht, erst hinter dem Hafen fliesst die Donau entlang der Dämme. Die Dämme halten eh alle, vor allem im Norden. Die Wege werden so wie 2002 mit einem halben Meter Gatsch bedeckt sein, sodaß die ersten Wochen und Monate ausschliesslich Gummistiefel das einzig brauchbare Schuhwerk sein wird. Wir werden sehen....
...und nicht zu vergessen, die Myriarden von zu erwartenden Gelsen....
123RedRob, op 2013-06-01 17:04:50, gewijzigd op 2013-06-01 17:06:05, zei:
I have never seen the Walnuts so late as they are this year, this photo was taken this afternoon and the leaves are just unfurling and not yet fully out. How does this compare with elsewhere, at what date were the Walnut trees at this stage in Germany, France, Newcastle area etc? I like to get a human figure in my photos but had to make do with a sheep standing next to the tree.
Very nice and tall Walnut! In Holland the trees are just as late this year because of the very cold weather. The walnuts are among the latest, but exotics like Gleditsia, Catalpa and Ailanthus are even later.
Jeroen
123RedRob, op 2013-06-05 17:51:26, gewijzigd op 2013-06-05 17:52:08, zei:
Not much difference really then Jeroen this year between the Netherlands and Yorkshire. I thought that this tree deserved another photo, it is just short of the B&I record of 27 metres but I have another one which I am waiting to measure when it has full foliage which looks as big as this one.
Hello Kouta, Register doesn't say, just says it is a tall, straight Holly in a Quarry. The Holly at Fountains is hidden when the trees are in full leaf, I completely missed it. I don't visit Fountains in the winter as it always looks at it's best when the leaves are out but I visited at the beginning of last month and the trees are so late this year that most were still leafless and I spotted this dark figure of a tree, scrambled up to it and found this superb Holly.
To know something about the trees in the Tree Register of the British Isles you can mail them at info@tree-register.org. I will give you the addresses of the Director David Alderman and the Registrar Owen Johnson also.
The only tall hollow tree I found was in Germany, but in Corsia (Stella forest / North-east of island)are a grove of this species, composed by specimens with girth and heights between 2,5-3,15 and 15-25 m.
The method of measure is not written and the years of datas is around 1998-2000.
I don't know the limits of this species, but 25 m is already a nice height.
I think Owen is off on one of his measuring trips, Scotland I suspect, at the moment but I can ask him about that Holly if anyone is interested enough. An awful lot of the measurements were reported pre laser or just with distance lasers with separate angle measuring instrument Owen has told me so what this one was? I have just re-measured several trees now on the Register which are no-where near the height originally reported, not with the Forestry Pro anyway. I will stick a few on here anyway at some point.
Are you aware that you should measure with the 2-point-routine? The 3-point-routine of Forestry Pro is accurate only if the tree top is exactly above the base. As you are a newer laser-measurer, I thought you may not have read our discussions on this topic.
So happy to see we have some of these majestic beings close by in Ballarat and Daylesford. In the meantime have ordered some seeds of both and will attempt to grow them. Feel a very strong connection to these giants. Wonderful to find this page!
I was looking the Morton Arboretum website and noticed that they have a Sequoia Giant on their property at coordinates of 41.813201,-88.064804. The Arboretum is about 40 minutes west of Chicago.
site even though the Sequoia of Lake Bluff Arboretum near Manistee, Michigan was listed. I really like the map showing all the Sequoias in the United States and felt maybe that one in Morton should be looked at and listed. Thanks for a really great site. I signed on to be a member.
beste Frederik, monumentaltrees.com is niet gemaakt voor dit soort ukkies, het maakt de site minder waardevol, dus verwijder aub dit kleintje en registreer de mooiste en grootste bomen in je buurt.
Yes, this was a nice surprise from a friend who visited the India country from south to north in winter 2012.
The girth is estimated but the real number is not far from it. Maybe it is the biggest but this area is so large that we can cheked all the teritory (escarpment, surface,the fact that there is little or no prospect about the study of this species.)
A specimen is near him and he have a girth of 6 m (around).
He says me also that we can find Prunus armeniana (girth around 1,55 m ; altitude 1800 to 2500 m).
For the age is a large estimation. It can be near this datas , we know that the species who grows in difficult conditions and important altitudes don't grow so fast.
It's a friend I tried to convert to the remarkables trees research and after few field trips, I considered he was apt to follow the rules of inventory.
Hm...The sheep is perfect. Very nice picture. Everything in nature is slow in the continent. Cannot tell for now about the walnuts, but perhaps I can find some time tomorrow to have a quick investigation.
Well done for measuring this Kouta, from the photo looks abit tricky and hemmed in although we cannot see the top from the photo. I thought that there must be some big Tila Europea somewhere in Europe, perhaps Sisley will also find some in France.
Eine Linde, ob Winter- oder Sommer kann ich nicht sagen, aber an der Struktur de Blätter soll man sie gut unterscheiden können. Hierzu auf Baumkunde.de
Blätter: Die Blattoberseite und der Blattstiel der Sommerlinde sind behaart, die Blattoberseite und der Blattstiel der Winterlinde sind kahl. Selbst mit geschlossenen Augen lässt sich dieses Merkmal an abgefallenem, noch nicht zersetztem Laub erfühlen. Blattoberseite und Blattunterseite der Sommerlinde sind gleichfarbig grün, die Blattunterseite der Winterlinde ist Vergleich zur Oberseite heller,...
The large leaf size suggests (but does not prove) Tilia americana. Leaves on sprouts (after heavy pruning) on Tilia × europaea can sometimes also be this large.
these are large leaves, probably after pruning, of T. x europaea (T. americana has sharper needly toothed leaf margins and less or not cordate leaf base).
Thank You for all answers. Dont search for that tree at this position, I only add this pic for asking about. It is from a monument which located in a hidden garden.
Would someone be able to post a series of photos like this with foliage from the various Tilia species just for comparison with the differences pointed out (I appreciate pointing out differing hairs on the back of the leaves may be difficult in photos) Several of the places where I have measured big Limes are not sure which type they specifically are. Thank you.
I have looked at the Species page, is there a separate catagory for Irish Yew to main Taxus Baccata. There is a 15 metre Irish Yew in this photo, tallest I have seen and just short of the B&I champion height.
Would Like To Add Pics Of The tallest LOdgepole Pine In The World, Named Champion, But My City Isn'tAn Option Under San Bernardino County. I LIve In Big Bear Lake, AndThe Tree Resides Within Our VallEy Added The Genus Already, Pinus Contorta, And I Have Pictures As Well :)
If your city is not yet in the list, you can add it yourself by selecting "Add new village or city" in the list of cities. Hopefully now you will be able to continue. A tree is only successfully saved if you also clicked on the map (to get its coordinates) and you clicked "Save" at the bottom after filling in the necessary other information.
On 1,3m the broken branch behind contact, which make it impossible to measure for more than 1,5 m.. So I need to do it above or down. Then there are many little twigs in that line around. I stand on the top of the roots and I am 193cm (with shoes), which give You a good info about the size. I spoke with a gardener of the Harrachpark and he tells me, that they want to cut away this "shrub-tree", so it could be next, that I am not able to measure anything.
Always automatic scripts called robots are trying to make dummy registrations at the site (robot attacks). I have put up quite some barriers to keep them out, but recently some more advanced ones have managed to break them (including the captcha). These fake users come from different ip addresses and don’t have a pattern in the email addresses I could filter on (like many dots, or no vowels, …). This means I will have to make the registration procedure a bit more tight. I’m likely to ask a simple math question like: how much is the sum of 2 and 3? As long a robots are not able to understand this question, this will get me only the humans. It is always a cat and mouse game.
For the moment I have disabled the registration, to reduce my cleaning up work as I’m removing these users again.
In between, I know, that some "Nature-Police-man" or selfmade "police-man" are looking at MT. And sometimes they know very exactly, when some user (ME) do Pics or registration positions, which are located in not-allowed areas.
The trees can see everybody, but the discussions only the registrated users!
Be careful with that information and try to look at Your words, which every "user" can see.
Ik ben vandaag langs het arboretum trompenburg geweest. Ik zou dit arboretum graag beter in kaart brengen. er staan zeer veel interessante bomen. De website van het arboretum is ontoegankelijk en onduidelijk en MT biedt geen verbetering. Ik zou me wel willen inspannen om er iets beters van te maken. Kun je mijn bevoegdheden uitbreiden, ?
goed idee, ik ga er binnenkort weer eens naar toe, voor info over eiken.
Tim: kunnen de kleine mammoetbomen er weer af, ik geloof wel dat jij ze hebt geregistreerd, maar ze zijn wel erg klein, en in veel gevallen ook geen officiele cultivarnamen.
Als je het leuk vindt kunnen we samen gaan? Nodig me uit als je er bent of naar toegaat. 2 Kunnen meer dan éé'n misschien. Ik heb overigens het aboretum gevraagd om een gemakkelijker toegang dan 6,50 per keer.
Leo heeft het gebied Overtuin als aparte locatie geregistreerd. Hoewel het qua down- en uploaden gemakkelijk kan zijn, verstoort het de info over het Arboretum. Volgens mij is het beter om het arboretum te verdelen in segmenten. Het deel Overtuin is dan een segment. Dat zou verhelderend werken denk ik. Maar... ik heb de wijsheid niet in pacht. Dus schiet maar...
Ga uw gang, je hebt die rechten al. Je kan nieuwe sublocaties toevoegen en bomen verplaatsen van de ene sublocatie naar de andere (binnen de hoofdlocatie “Arboretum Trompenburg”) via de pagina ‘Wijzig gegevens van boom’.
Ik waardeer Han zeer, maar ik ben bang dat hij een momentje minder zorgvuldig is geweest. Ik heb echt opgelet en gedubblechecqued. Normaal zou ik niet eens een populier opvoeren. Maar in deze situatie en van deze afmeting streek ik mijn hand over mijn hart. Desalniettemin blijft het een lawaaiboom en niet echt vermeldenswaard.
Very nice Black Poplar you have found again! Along the Danube in Austria and Hungary seem to be the most big old Black Poplars in Europe, although we don't know what can be found in Russia and Ukraine.
It would be nice if you were able to measure the heights, but the Nikon lasers are with € 300,- rather expensive, I agree.
The two trunks are fused below the 1.3 m height. The tops of the both trunks are exactly at the same height. As the base of the left one is lower, it is taller. The measurements are therefore for the left trunk.
I measured this spruce again three years after my first measurement and got a result half a meter higher. The reason for the difference is that I measured the tree from a different place. There is probably a branch in front of the top when measuring from my old measuring place, which may also be a bit too far from the tree. The tree has certainly not grown 0.5 meters in three years, that's why I replaced the old measurement. I also measured from the old place and did not get a higher result than three years ago. There are some small branches near the top, but the tree is so tall that it is difficult to see what is exactly going on up there.
The new measuring place is on the slope in front of a big boulder/rock face. I forgot to take a compass bearing but it is about southwest from the tree.
I also measured the girth again and got remarkably lower result. I cannot explain this difference. Probably I made some mistake when visiting the tree two years ago, like placing the tape accidentally to low (it was raining heavily).
For me, it was a similar problem, but not the same.
I measured a C. betulus and the first result was 35,2 , one year later I measure again and I find 34,70, probably a mistake in the first measurement or a broken branch since this day..
- - -
A friend was in a few years in a place in the Vosges mountains (north-east of France). The area of 'Straiture' is composed by some tall Norway spruce. The higher has in 1997 around 55,5 m and now I ask me what height he could be reach.. The medium year growth was between 10 and 15 cm on 10 years of measurements.
Als ik Leo's boek zie, is deze boom onmogelijk. desalniettemin, hebben Haagse ambtenaren deze boom als zodanig gepositioneerd. Volgens Leo's boek kan dit niet. Ik wacht reacties en discussie maar af.
Ergo, er staan er een stuk of 8 denk ik. De boom is als straatbeplanting toegepast. Deze leek me de dikste. Ik zal één dezer dagen opnieuw kijken en ook de hoogte opmeten.
Conifers, op 2013-05-25 14:57:30, gewijzigd op 2013-05-25 15:01:05, zei:
Yes, it is a 'good' species, native to southeast Europe; English name Balkan Maple. It is related to Acer monspessulanum and Acer opalus, but distinct from both. My books cite 15 metres tall for it, so the Wien BG tree is large, well worth recording.
Edit: one at Glasnevin BG in Dublin, Ireland, is reported by TROBI to be 18 m tall.
Scholem Alejchem, op 2013-05-20 09:27:11, gewijzigd op 2013-05-20 09:27:26, zei:
Hello Tim
Today I found out, that many pages are not available in german. Many of the Recordtrees are full of big informations in ENGLISH, but if I go to the "read in german"-Link there is only a line with:
Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_VARIABLE in /customers/0/1/c/monumentaltrees.com/httpd.www/lang/country/hrv-de.php on line 3
or similar stuff.
All of the trees of György Posfal (more than 1000 trees), but also the biggest tree of europe
het programma geeft "zelf" Nederlandse namen aan een boom. Althans zo lijkt het voor mij. In werkelijkheid voert Tim (?) die waarschijnlijk in. Volgens mij kan ik dat niet. Ik heb in ieder geval de naam in de kop veranderd. "Oudste zelkova buiten Japan" heb ik weggehaald en zal dat in de tekst verwerken.
Ja idd, ik krijg een automatische mail van de website telkens iemand een nieuwe boomsoort registreert.
Dan voeg ik de namen toe in een resem talen van zodra ik 5 minuutjes tijd heb. Ik heb al menige Nederlandstalige namen "uitgevonden", naar analogie met de Duitse of de Franse benaming.
Ik wil de naam gerust veranderen Leo. Verander ik dan ook Zelkova carpinifolia in Kaukasische schijniep?
Vandaag was er een heugelijke gebeurtenis. Leo Goudzwaard liet een boek het levenslicht zien. Het boek heet "Loofbomen in Nederland en Vlaanderen" en is uitgegeven door KNNV. Ik heb het gekocht en doorgebladerd. Het is een interessant boek voor mensen die deze site bezoeken. Leo heeft vanuit een uitgangscriterium van "beeld" en tekst geprobeerd informatie over de belangrijkste bomensoorten en variëteiten in Nederland en Vlaanderen toegankelijk te maken. Het is goed geslaagd en hij heeft er 4 jaar over gedaan. Voor een outsider is dat wellicht moeilijk te bevatten, maar ik verzeker je dat het nauwkeurig en oprecht beschrijven van dit onderwerp monnikenwerk is. Een waardevolle aanvulling voor de boekenkast van de bomenliefhebber. Proficiat Leo.
Jeroen Philippona, op 2013-05-09 21:27:00, gewijzigd op 2013-05-09 23:33:25, zei:
Hi Karlheinz and Kouta,
Congratulations with the finding of these extreme tall beeches, even a heightrecord for native broadleaved trees, although we have to go back with a good team (you two, Sisley, Michael Spraggon and I) to some of the French forests for Sessile oak! Are those two trees outstanding in the forest or are there more beeches as tall? I would like to see more information on the location as a whole, the soil, inclination, climate, history, etc. Also I hope you will send the information and photos about 'Kleinengelein' also to MT.
By the way: how did you know about these extreme tall beechforest? Are there more very tall beechforests in this part of Germany?
With your findings the earlier reports of beech of 50 to 52 m tall in several countries are not so strange anymore. The tallest measurement I have seen for beech was 54 m in Romania. Not anymore so unreachable than we thought till recently!
I agree with Jeroen. Exciting to see that discoveries are still being made!
Kind regards,
Tim
KoutaR, op 2013-05-12 08:47:20, gewijzigd op 2013-05-12 08:49:47, zei:
Thank you Jeroen & Tim for congratulations and Karlheinz for finding this super grove!
The whole grove is full of extremely tall beeches. As they already had leaves, we were able to measure only a few of them. We must do a new trip next spring. The grove is small, only perhaps 300-500 m long and the tallest trees are confined to the very bottom of the valley. The strangest thing is that it appears to be a normal managed forest! Though the tallest tree is so thick that it has likely been "protected" by the foresters. Some good sized trees had just been felled and ashes been planted. The place must have some exceptional qualities (think how thin is the 47.2-metre tree!).
It is a west-east positioned valley at an elevation of 200 m. The soil is likely fertile brown earth formed from loess. Annual rainfall is 700-800 mm. We don't know much about the place, but Karlheinz has contacted foresters, the town mayor and local press. We hope he gets more information.
Karlheinz found the grove by chance but according to the information, he has got, it was already known that the beeches are exceptionally tall, although they haven't likely been measured accurately. If there are other super-groves nearby, we don't know.
I am fairly sure the potential height maximum for European beech is over 50 m. Another question is, if there are over-50-metre beeches left nowadays. Think how little there are natural forests in the lowland beech forest area in Europe! And the best and most fertile sites are almost exclusively under agriculture or at least commercial forestry.
After receiving further information, particularly from the district forester, I have now completed a description of the location at the German language page.
Measurements on other trees of this location are indicated! It is not excluded that there are taller beeches in this grove. The 50 m mark is to crack!
Karlheinz
123RedRob, op 2013-05-22 17:49:21, gewijzigd op 2013-05-22 17:50:45, zei:
Congratulations Kouta and Karlheinz on finding and measuring these trees, amazingly slim trunks on some of them for such tall trees. Is this area pretty sheltered and not prone to consistant winds? I cannot imagine trees of this height with such slim trunks surviving very long over here in Blighty, we just seem to be having none stop winds these days, every day. Is your 49.3 metres to the very tip of the leading shoot of the Beech, could you see the top of the crown and the very leading shoot? I have found the whippy, thin leading shoot tips of Beech very difficult to hit with the laser (Nikon Forestry Pro)I am using and have given up on some trees, recording a reading slightly lower down banker reading where the laser beam can hit the denser crown.
The beeches grow on a valley bottom, so they are sheltered from wind, though the valley is not deep. The height is as close to the tip as possible; if not to the VERY tip, then at least very near.
may I remind the users that there is a rather new option on the settings page to choose the layout of the site: normal or wide. The last one can be useful on wide screens as more images are shown on one page, tables are wider, etc.
I see only Rainer has changed his setting. Maybe the width is okay for the other users, or maybe this possibility is not known well.
der Baum wurde bereits vor einiger Zeit angelegt, siehe hier: http://www.monumentaltrees.com/de/deu/nordrheinwestfalen/wesel/4715_golfclubsweselerwald/
Die Koordinaten sind allerdings etwas unterschiedlich, ich bin mir aber recht sicher, dass ''meine'' Position stimmt. Ist allerdings schon zwei Jahre her bei mir.
Das hätte ich nicht gesehen! Ich habe den Baum besucht nar Anleiting von das Buch "unsere 500 ältesten Baume" und nicht gesehen das Du schon den Baum besucht hast. Es tut mir Leid. Ich hoffe das Tim die beide Beiträgen zusammen fässt.
Many users write tree and location descriptions (the text between heading and measurements) as measuring reports. However, there is now a place to write reports or "stories" but it looks like almost nobody has used it. I too just used it for the first time.
I propose that the description should be only description with stand details, climate etc., not personal trip accounts. If the description is a measuring report and another user likes to write his own report, the text becomes very long. Instead use the report feature and place a link to it to the description text.
Note that the text in this page include only facts, not personal stories. Note also, that there is a link to the measuring report, which includes the personal things. If another user visits the grove, he may add new facts to the description and add a new link to his personal story.
I agree, the logic is clear and this approach makes sense.
As far as I know reports are accessible only via the user name, so they are rarely read.
But adding a link to the report in any "additional information" data field, it will be found.
Jeroen Philippona, op 2013-05-18 21:21:04, gewijzigd op 2013-05-21 20:49:03, zei:
Yes,
It makes sence indeed to write the facts at the page of the tree and the more subjective experiences in a separate report to wich is linked from the tree-page.
But the German report of Karlheinz of the same location is also very good and has some subjective remarks. I do not mind so much about these.
I asked Tim to create this possibility of separate reports, but myself I did not use it till now. The disadvantage is that they are only to be found from the specimen page of a tree and only in one language version. It should better be automatically linked from the specimen pages in all languages.
The distinction between a more objective specimen page and a report page with room for more subjective experiences makes sence only when this starts to be the rule. Best would it be when this is written at the link to the different type of locations. At the moment especially new users often do not see many possibilities of the website. For example a new user recently started to write reports in German below one of the photographs of each tree. I copied those reports to the specimen pages of these trees.
> The disadvantage is that they are only to be found from the specimen page of a tree
The only way to the report as I know is via the photographer's name and a further click on reports. Because reports are so rare, I usually did not test this path.
> It should better be automatically linked from the specimen pages in all languages.
Since the opportunity to write a personal report is only rarely used, this is a good solution. A strict separation between languages is not required, an interesting report should be linked even if it is written in another language. Often it is worth to change the data fields "Additional information" to the regional language, these data fields usually are not direct translations but often have different contents.
> But the German report of Karlheinz of the same location is also very good and has some subjecive remarks
But it is provided that in this data field each user can edit my text. I think now, subjective remarks would be better placed under "Reports" where no one else can change.
Karlheinz
Tim, op 2013-05-21 11:17:09, gewijzigd op 2013-05-21 11:22:20, zei:
I agree that trip reports should not be on a tree's description page or location page. The "story" possibility can be used for that. I will make those pages more accessible in the future to make them more prominent. I think I will rename "story" to "trip report" or simply "report".
This functionality can definitely be used already. I will also make it possible to add other content in a "story", like photos, videos, ... Now you can only add links.
Commenting on the report of somebody else can be done (like with any other page) by clicking on the "Comment" button in the upper right corner - the one that has a text balloon icon (in which a number will appear in the future, showing the number of comments on a page).
Ik heb het gewijzigd. Ik voegde het J. F. Arnold toe omdat MT automatisch de naam zwarte den opvoerde, terwijl een uitgave van de hortus spreekt over Oostenrijkse den. Desalniettemin; het is veranderd.
het is idd een oostenrijkse den, var nigra of subspec. nigra. Ook hierover is weer debate. In MT is voor het gemak alleen de soort P. nigra vermeld met de NL naam zwarte den.
Inderdaad, de website laat momenteel enkel een "language label" oftewel een vertaalde naam toe per soort, niet per ondersoort/cultivar/variëteit. Het gebeurt wel eens dat een specifieke ondersoort een bepaalde gebruikelijke naam heeft, zoals hier de "Oostenrijkse den", die feitelijk een zwarde den is.
Je zal het voorlopig met "zwarte den" subsp. nigra moeten doen.
De juiste naam is Taxodium distichum var. imbricatum, de vijvercipres. Van deze soort is al een ex. geregistreerd (T. ascendens is een verouderde naam).
This one is a matter of botanical opinion; both names are valid ('correct'), but it can be debated whether it is a distinct species, or just a variety. Personally, I tend to prefer treating it as a separate species.
Een goede naam kan zijn Japanse besappel (Loofbomen in Nederland en Vlaanderen, 2013). De bloemen zijn meer roze dan bij de andere exemplaren van Malus toringo. Ook zijn er geen gelobde bladeren te zien op de foto. Ik vraag me af of dit exemplaar wel een zuivere Malus toringo is.
Ik heb me geheel verlaten op de informatie van de hortus zelf. De hortus stelt dat Siebold deze boom in 1845 heeft geplant. Eerder heb ik nog wat vragen bij de collectiebeheerder neergelegd en hoop op spoedig antwoord. Zodra ik contact heb, zal ik jouw twijfel overbrengen.
Even ter aanvulling. Nu ik jouw laat bezinken, kan ik me ook nauwelijks voorstellen dat dit een boom uit 1845 is. Ik heb wel meer slordigheidjes in de hortus en hun publicatie gevonden.
De discussie meerstammigheid kreeg voor mij bij het opvoeren van bomen uit de Hortus Leiden een nieuwe dimensie. In de Hortus zijn meerdere bomen geplant, waarvan zeker is dat het één boom betreft. Toch zou je zonder deze kennis zeggen dat het meerstammige bomen zijn. Wat vinden de deskundigen hiervan?
Van de Japanse esdoorn kan ik het moeilijk zien, maar de beide andere bomen zijn zeker meerstammig. Het kan best gaan om één genetisch exemplaar vanuit een gemeenschappelijke wortelstok, maar toch meerstammig (zo groeien bijvoorbeeld ook de meeste gewone hazelaars). Sommige boomsoorten groeien vanuit zichzelf vaak of meestal zo, met meerdere stammen vanuit één wortelstelsel. Als je de omtrek wil meten, kun je de dikste stam op borsthoogte meten. Tevens kun je de gemeenschappelijke omtrek van de stam nabij de grond ook meten en noteren.
Een ander fenomeen dus dan een bomenboeket, waarbij meerdere boompjes in een plantgat worden gezet. Deze vergroeien later vaak tot één gemeenschappelijke stam.
KoutaR, op 2013-05-18 17:46:58, gewijzigd op 2013-05-18 17:49:42, zei:
Less than two weeks after we measured the 46.8-meter beech in Kleinengelein (http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/deu/bavaria/schweinfurt/6332_naturwaldreservatkleinengelein/12481/), I got an e-mail from Karlheinz’ smartphone. He had found by chance a 47.2-meter beech in Gründau, German state of Hesse, east of Frankfurt. Only a few hours later, he reported he had found a beech that he believed to be over 49 m tall, 200 m from the 47.2-m beech. He also asked if I could come to verify his measurement. I got this latter e-mail only next noon. I called him; yes, he was still there and would wait if I decided to come. The location is 370 km from my home, beyond the limit I have decided to drive for measuring a single tree. In addition, I fully trust Karlheinz’ measurements. But this tree was a new record for not only beech but for any European native broadleaf tree, a good reason for making an exception! Luckily I had the day off and my wife said yes, you can go. So I hurried to Hesse driving 160 km/h (100 mph, a speed rather average on German highways but rather high for my car) to see, photograph and measure the beech.
We began to walk towards the new record tree along a logging road. The whole valley bottom was full of tall beeches but we were unable to measure most of them because they already had leaves. But the new record tree (http://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/deu/hesse/mainkinzig/6246_burgronneburg/12377/) grew at the edge of a gap. Nevertheless, measuring was not easy because the base was hidden behind beech saplings although we used Karlheinz’ 7.5-meter pole at the base. We found one place where both the tree top and the pole top were visible, but the place was a bit too far from the tree thus decreasing accuracy. My result was 42.2 meters to the pole top. The pole base was 0.2 m below the average ground level, thus the tree height would be 49.5 m. What a beech! But we were not completely satisfied due to the long measuring distance. At good measuring distance, there was a place where the top was clearly visible but not the pole. Fortunately, Karlheinz has Leica Disto D8. We measured the vertical distance from the top to a reference point on another trunk with Nikon 550A S. Then Karlheinz measured the vertical distance from the reference point to the pole with Disto. Disto gives accurate distances to the nearest centimetre, so using a reference point did not decrease the accuracy. We consider this measurement more accurate than the one from the longer distance. The result was 49.3 m. This tree was thick, CBH being 338 cm, so thick that it had likely been protected by foresters.
I then had to drive the 370 km back home. Thus, I drove 740 km in one day for a few trees!
Afterwards Karlheinz contacted foresters and got some information about the stand. He also contacted a local newspaper, which wrote a short article about the beeches and him.
ik veronderstel dat de taxus die boom op de achtergrond is. Maar door de Thuya op de voorgrond is die niet goed zichtbaar. Het lijkt mij dat je deze foto beter bij de Thuya kan plaatsen.
Ik deed dit omdat er naast deze ook andere foto's van de taxus staan. Daarnaast wilde ik niet dubbelen omdat anderen al foto's hebben geplaatst. Deze leek me de verhoudingen goed weer te geven. Maar dank voor je opmerking. Ik zal er nog eens naar kijken. En..je hebt nog een grotere taxus tegoed. Die zet ik er hopelijk vanavond op.
How can I get a Sequoia tree to plant on Kaua'i, I am currently living in Texas and plan on moving back to Hawaii when I retire (9 mos). I think it's our duty as sons and daughters to beautify our islands of Hawaii with these beautiful trees. I only see these type of trees down south Texas and California.
There are Coast Redwoods (Sequoia sempervirens) planted on Maui, Hawaii (see e.g. here), it should be possible to find seedlings there. If you are looking for Giant Sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum), that won't grow well in the Hawaii climate.
tolle Eiche. Besonder schön finde ich, dass du die Eiche auf verschiedene Höhen gemessen hast. Demnach ist der Umfang in 1,0 m Höhe etwas geringer als in 1,3 m Höhe. Ist das dann auch der geringste Umfang bis in eine Höhe von 1,3 m? Also das Maß, welches in das Register sollte.
ich habe etwas überlegt, was ich antworten soll und mal noch dei Eichen eingestellt, die das ganze Elend mit den Messungen und vor allem den Ranglisten illustrieren.
Ich halte nicht so viel von den Ranglisten, sehe es eher als Spielerei, und mache mit auch weil es Öffentlichkeit für Bäume schafft.
Ich sehe jeden Baum als Individuum, jeder wächst anders, durch Umwelteinflüsse, durch seine "Gene". Mir sind wichtiger ihre Bedeutung als Bestandteil der (Kultur)Landschaft, ihre Geschichten, ihre Schönheit und die Verbindung mit der Natur.
Ich brauche den Umfang, um das Alter besser einschätzen zu können. Und da beginnt das Problem. Bäume wurden, werden immer vermessen. Ich habe ein großes Archiv von historischen Quellen mit Messungen. Aber Messungen von verschiedenen Menschen, verschiedenen Epochen, die kann man selten wirklich gut vergleichen, ja nicht einmal meinen eigenen Messungen von früher kann ich trauen :-( Noch schlimmer, messe ich dreimal, habe ich bei den meisten alten Bäumen drei Ergebnisse, auf derselben Höhe! Z.B. wo beginnt der Boden, bei Wurzelanläufen am Hang, Knollen, Beulen, usw... (Recht einfach sind da nur jüngere oder kreisrunde nicht geneigte oder am Hang stehende Bäume mit glatter Borke).
Um ein Mindestmaß an Vergleichbarkeit halte ich Brusthöhenumfang bei 1,3m als Vergleichsmaßstab am Besten, ich messe auch 1m, weil etliche Quellen da gemessen haben und mess auch hin und wieder Taille, wo dies auffällig ist, aber nicht wenn sie in der größten Höhe bei 2m erst ist, fast jeder Baum wird nach oben dünner, 2m Höhe halte ich als Maßstab da für recht willkürlich.
zu den Beispielen:
1) Waldemareiche: Hier hat z.B. Fröhlich 9,60m in 1,3m, wie zum Teufel kommt er darauf? Dann kann ich auch keiner Fröhlich-Messung trauen, hier ist es auffällig falsch, bei anderen Bäumen fällt eine geringere Abweichung vielleicht gar nicht auf.
2) Derfflinger-Eiche: Ich hatte 2001 7,5m, 2005, 7,6m, 2009 7,32m, 2011 7,48m, jetzt 7,73m, alles nach besten Wissen und Gewissen in 1,3m. Fröhlich hatte 1994 7,15m, 1910 waren es 7,5m, die UNB 1956 7,8m. Sieht aus wie Umfangs-Lotto :-(
3) Teufelseiche: Hang und hohl. Fange bei 0,5 am "Berg" an und lande bei 2,0 im "Tal", hoffe alles ist gerade und kämpfe mit den Efeu ;-) Also meine Hand ins Feuer legen würde ich nicht.
Zu schwierig für mich um den Anspruch eine Rangliste zu genügen, also lasse ich´s gleich.
Liebe Grüße
Andreas
Scholem Alejchem, op 2013-05-14 15:59:09, gewijzigd op 2013-05-14 15:59:36, zei:
Leute, bin ich froh, daß es nicht nur mir so geht, ich hatte schon Selbstzweifel! 10 Messungen an verschiedenen Tagen ergeben exakt 10 verschiedene Ergebnisse, wobei die Abweichungen manchmal nachdenklich machen.....(;-))
liebe Grüße
Scholem
Rainer Lippert, op 2013-05-14 17:08:01, gewijzigd op 2013-05-14 17:10:51, zei:
Hallo Andreas, Hallo Scholem,
da sprecht ihr mir ja aus der Seele ;-) Ich habe da die gleichen Erfahrungen gemacht wie ihr. Gerade weil das mit der Höhe so schwierig ist, habe ich mir vor 25 Jahren schon eine eigene Messmethotik angeeignet, die ich auch bis heute noch durchführe. Ich bin ein Taillenmesser. Ich messe bei einem Baum bis in eine Höhe von 2,5 m die Taille. Befindet sich die Taille tiefer als 1,3 m Höhe, dann ist das gleich das Maß für das Register, also der Brusthöhenumfang (BHU). Befindet sich die Taille höher als 1,3 m, messe ich zusätzlich in genau 1,3 m Höhe. Diese Zusatzmessung mache ich aber erst seit ein paar Jahren. 20 Jahre lang habe ich nur die Taille gemessen. Und bei 99 % der großen Laubbäume liegt die Taille tiefer als 2,5 m. Bei Nadelbäumen sieht es natürlich anders aus, da ist die Taille ja viel zu hoch. Mit der Taillenmessung habe ich eigentlich recht gute Erfahrungen gemacht. Drei unterschiedliche Messungen haben nur sehr geringe Differenzen. 1 oder 2 cm vielleicht.
Ich habe vor drei oder vier Jahren mit den Gebrüdern Kühn, die vom Deutschen Baumarchiv, zusammen einige Bäume vermessen. Die messen ja ausschließlich in 1,0 m Höhe. Dabei haben wir unter anderem die Bildeiche in Albertshausen vermessen http://www.monumentaltrees.com/de/deu/bayern/badkissingen/4669_ortschaft/). Und die Gebrüder haben bei der ersten Messung ein geringeres Maß gehabt, als etwa 5 Jahre vorher. Dann gab es Diskussionen, wo der Punkt am Boden sei, von wo aus die Höhe von 1,0 m gemessen wird. Das Gelände ist zwar recht ebenerdig, aber dennoch auf einer Seite etwas höher als auf der anderen Seite. Eine weitere Messung hat dann ein größeren Wert als die alte Messung ergeben. Dieses Maß wurde dann auch in die aktuellste Literatur verwendet. Also auch die haben Probleme mit der Höhenbestimmung.
Gerade bei Fröhlich muss man mit den Werten etwas aufpassen. Ich glaube nämlich, der hat nicht selbst alle Bäume vermessen, sondern auch viele Daten zusammengetragen. Ich selbst habe in meiner Region eine Eiche, die laut Fröhlich einen Umfang von 7,0 m haben soll. Sie hat jedoch nur 5,3 m Umfang.
Um jetzt nochmal bei dieser Eiche zu bleiben. Demnach hast du also bei dieser Eiche die Taille konkret nicht gemessen? Auf dem Bild sieht es so aus, als ob die Eiche eine recht gut ausgeprägte Taille hätte. Da bei dir die Messung in 1,0 m Höhe kleiner ist als in 1,3 m Höhe, scheint demnach die Taille tiefer als 1,3 m Höhe zu sein. Ich persönlich würde da jetzt nur die Taille messen. Und dieses Maß setze ich dann gleich als Brusthöhenumfang. Aber wie du schon selbst gesagt hast, Ranglisten sind nicht alles.
das Thema wird wohl immer im Fluß bleiben ;-) Was ich sagen wollte, ich verzichte für mich persönlich auf Ranglisten auf Basis des Umfangs. Zu viele Einflüsse (Subjektivität/Varianz der Messungen (selbst bei noch so exakt definierten Regeln), Interpretation Stämme/Kerne, Wuchsbdingungen, etc...) lassen diese, oft geht es ja letzlich um cm, in meinen Augen unseriös werden.
Zu Fröhlich: Ja, er hat das meiste nicht selbst vermessen, sondern über Anfragen eingesammelt, meist bei Forstbehörden. Der Rücklauf war auch sehr unterschiedlich, deshalb haben die Büchlein oft auffällige Lücken oder Häufungen ;-) (Nicht jeder wollte auch "gratis" für Ruhm und Ehre eines anderen zuarbeiten oder es gab andere Differenzen.
In der Regel kann die bei Fröhlich je Bundesland genannten Einträge verdoppeln und 5% von Fröhlich abziehen, weil doch nicht relevant. Zudem sind die Altersschätzungen oft übertrieben, z.T stark.
Die ist für mich zwar mehrkernig, aber die sehe ich als ein Stamm an. Aber darüber gibt es ja auch verschiedene Meinungen.
Ja, so habe ich das bei Fröhlich auch gehört. Gerade in Bayern stehen da sehr viele Linden und Eichen mit 3 oder 4 m drinnen, aber einige der ganz dicken fehlen. Und zu den Altersangaben. Da gibt es wenigstens noch viele 1.000-jährige Bäume ;-) Wenn man dort die Altersangaben halbiert, liegt man meistens nicht so verkehrt. Bei vielen Bäumen kommt das der Wahrheit wohl näher.
Das mit den Mehrkernigen ist so eine Sache, die eigentlich jedem klar sein sollte. Eine 100jährige Eiche, Schwarzpappel, Platane etc. bringt niemals 8m zusammen. In den Donauauen steht eine Stieleiche mit über 9m Umfang, der Boden ist aber erst seit 1880 in der derzeitigen Form vorhanden und war vorher Wasser. Also geht sich das auf natürliche Weise niemals aus.
Ich bin zur Zeit dabei, alle meine Anfängerfehler zu korrigieren und daher auch diese "Wunschriesen" als mehrstämmg einzutragen.
Unbestritten ist aber, daß die Wirkung auf die Menschen gleich ist, so auch auf mich. In der Sekunde, wenn ich einen Neuen entdecke, ist es mir auch die exakte Bestimmung ziemlich piep, das kommt erst wenn die ratio überhand nimmt.
yes I can and will. Nevertheless, I have to visit the place again to be quite sure. I will do that in the coming days. Nevertheless I will upload what I have and what I am sure about. I realise that these trees are historically and dendrological more important than first sight might suggest.
sorry, befremdet mich etwas, Deine Anregung ein Bild zu löschen, da ein anderes schöner ist :-(
Mag sein, aber das ist ja hier auch kein Bilderschönheitsmalwettbewerb, so sehe ich das zumindestens.
Mir geht es eher um die Bäume an sich, Bilder dann auch mal "nur" als Mittel zum Zweck.
Auch wenn ich "schöne" Photos mache (kommt ab und zu vor), versuche ich stets den Baum so natürlich wie möglich darzustellen, so wie er sich in dem Moment als ich da war, auch dem Auge des Betrachters präsentierte. Natürliches Licht, natürliche Farben, keine Überschärfung. Meine Kameras (die JPGs) sind entsprechend sehr defensiv eingestellt (Schärfe/Farben/Weißabgleich). Dazu möglichst wenig destruktive Operationen, z.B. lieber "ungeschärft" als Details zu verlieren, keine Kameras die bei hohen ISOs Aquarelle malen. Zu 99% erfolgt auch keine Nachbearbeitung, dazu habe ich auch gar keine Zeit, also alles "Out Of The Box". Gestaltung alleine über Motivansprache, also z.B. Brennweite, Standpunkt, Bildausschnitt.
Was meint denn eigentlich prvdzouw dazu?
Viele Grüße aus dem Wedding
Andreas
Frank Gyssling, op 2013-05-14 16:37:04, gewijzigd op 2013-05-16 12:24:29, zei:
Hallo Andreas,
sorry, wenn ich dich brüskiert habe. Das war nicht meine Absicht! Respekt auch für deine umfangreiche Baumsammlung!
Ich bin nach einigen dendrologischen Führungen über die Landschafts- und Architektur-Fotografie zu den „Bemerkenswerten Bäumen“ gestoßen. Da habe ich etwas andere Ansprüche an gute Fotos. Unscharfe, flaue Fotos mit ausgefressenen Lichtern und/oder zugelaufenen Schatten, Gebäude mit stürzenden Linien möchte ich der Öffentlichkeit nicht präsentieren. Auch Personen, Fahrräder usw. gehören meines Erachtens nicht ins Bild.
Zugegeben, ist es gar nicht so einfach die charakteristischen Merkmale der Bäume einschließlich ihrer Umgebung ins rechte Licht bzw. Bild zu setzen. Viele Standorte habe ich deshalb mehrfach zu unterschiedlichen Jahreszeiten und bei verschiedenen Licht-Situationen besucht.
Ich bin der Meinung lieber einige wenige gute Fotos als viele schlechte. Besser Qualität statt Quantität!
Vielleicht trifft man sich ja mal zum Gedankenaustausch, wenn möglich unter einem schönen Baum ;-)
Yes, I gave it a very long thought, but in the end I couldn't resist in doing so. The height of some trees intrigued me. Allthough it is quite expensive € 300,- and it had to compete with a better lense on my eos-camera, I think it is worth while.
Het stikte daar van de meidoorn, maar je hebt gelijk. Nadere bestudering van een bladfoto laat het zien. Ik tuimel er steeds weer in. Volgende week niet meer, als ik jouw boek heb.
Malus because of max. 4 pairs of leaf-veins, yellow stamens and rose to white flowers(Prunus has more veins, different shape of the flower and pure white flowers (or pure pink), Pyrus has red stamens, and more veins), keep on doing this nice inventory work, cheers, Leo.
Hi, I just consulted my encyclopaedic guide on tropical & subtropical trees. Now I have some doubts. Why are you so sure that it is a Ficus elastica? Do you know Cadiz, and or the trees there?
Actualmente este árbol se encuentra bajo amenaza, ya que lamentablemente el municipio pretende contruir justo bajo la plaza donde crece, un enorme estacionamiento subterraneo, lo cual significaria cortar sus raices y dejar las malogradas atrapadas entre cemento, es decir esto acabaria matando esta preciosa especie única en Valparaiso.
Los defensores de la plaza ya estan en acción, sin embargo cualquier ayuda será bienvenida. La notícia esta ampliamente reporteada por la prensa chilena.
(Mi fuente proviene del diario El Mercurio, quien el día sábado redacta la notícia en su "cuerpo C", página 12 del 11 de Mayo de 2013.)
waren denn die 664 cm dann die dünnste Stelle am Stamm? Auf dem Bild sieht es danach aus. Es sieht auch so aus, als ob dies etwas oberhalb von 1,3 m ist. Demnach dürfte der Stammumfang in 1,3 m Höhe so um die 670 bis 680 cm liegen. Davon gibt es nicht so viele in Deutschland.
die dünnste Stelle war es bestimmt. Der Baum hat riesige Wurzeln und da weis ich nicht ab wo da die 130cm gelten. natürlich könnte ich weiter oben messen, der Stamm ist dort etwas stärker. Auf jeden Fall gibt es in Püchau auch noch eine ganz dicke Eiche, diese hab ich noch nicht vermessen, aber ein Bild kommt die Tage mit rein.
http://www.monumentaltrees.com/de/deu/sachsen/muldentalkreis/6189_tiergartenteich/
die 1,3 m Höhe wird immer vom natürlichen Bodenniveau aus gemessen. Wenn der Stamm darunter etwas dünner ist, so wird an dieser Stelle gemessen. Wenn also die 664 cm die dünnste Stelle war, dann ist das auch das Maß, welches in das Register gehört. Sollten aber diese 664 cm jetzt beispielsweise in 1,7 m Höhe sein, dann wäre das Maß für das Register, eben dieses auf 1,3 m Höhe, noch größer. Es wäre also schön, wenn du dieses Maß eintragen würdest. Dann könntest du noch die Bemerkung im Text machen, dass es sich um ein Taillenmaß handelt. Wenn du ja noch einmal in die Region kommst, kannst du ja mal genau die Höhe von 1,3 m messen. Wenn sich die Taille noch darüber befindet, solltest du dann eine weitere Messung durchführen. Wenn die Taille darunter liegt, oder genau in dieser Höhe, sind die 664 cm maßgebend.
Die Buche ist auf jeden Fall aufgrund des Umfanges sehr Interessant. Für das Deutsche Baumarchiv liegt das Maß auch oberhalb der Untergrenze. Sie hat also das Potential in Zukunft in der Baumliteratur zu erscheinen. In Wikipedia habe ich vor einige Zeit mal eine Liste über die dicksten Buchen erstellt. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_dicksten_Buchen_in_Deutschland) Die Liste umfasst alle bekannten dicken Buchen. Dort würde sie es direkt unter die ersten 20 von Deutschland schaffen.
Yes, sorry for this wrong news. I did'nt pay attention, how can I change the author name of the measures ?
The measure was make by Jacques GUENECO (geometer) and G.COLIN (foret ressearcher in Nancy - Meurthe et Moselle, 54000) in 2001 and the others were make between 1991 and 2001 by the same persons.
The two docs, who are détailed some tall Douglas and Picea abies in Alsace and Vosges in the north-east of France :
I've changed the registered person to J. Gueneco & G. Colin.
You are right Kouta, the "Add new person" does not yet appear in that list. I will add it, but in the meantime you can add a person in any other list where the "Add new person" does appear.
but it shows Scholem Alechem as the author of the new measurement. Not that it would be very important to me, but I think it is better for the webmaster to know about problems and find a solution early on then waiting till the feces hits the rotating object on the ceiling.
Cheers
Tom
I see on that page that there are two measurements for that tree, one from 2001 assigned to you and one from 2013 assigned to Scholem. Can you confirm that you also added the second one (the one from 2013) - meaning you added both measurements?
Yep, I added both measurements, not that it is very important. I only thought that it might be better that you know about the IT problems before they get out of hand!
I'm glad to report that this bug is solved. I understand how this comes, could reproduce it, and created a solution for it so it cannot occur anymore in the future.
I'm actually even more glad to say that no information was lost in the past. The correct measurer was also logged (in this case Arlesbaam) but was not shown on the site due to a "ghost entry" in the database. I'll leave the details out, but it had nothing to do with concurrent users.
This particular situation occurred 8 times more in the database, and all were fixed. No information lost!
dass ist eine Trauerweide. Nur die Echte Trauerweide, Salix babylonica, ist in Mitteleuropa nicht Winterhart. Die gibt es nur äußerst selten. Und die Varietät 'Tristis' ist Winterfest und ist die am meisten vertretene Trauerform in unserer Region. Entstanden ist sie aus eine Kreuzung mit einer Hängeform der Salix-alba mit Salix babylonica. Das kann dir aber bestimmt Conifers besser und genauer erklären. Oder was meinst du jetzt konkret?
Ist das jetzt eine (Salix alba), Varietät 'Tristis' oder eine Trauerweide Salix × sepulcralis?
Ich frag das, weil ich mir bei meinen "Trauerweiden" auch nicht sicher bin und zur Zeit beim "Aufräumen" meiner zt. falsch beschriebenen "Anfänge". Ich kenne eine "Trauerweide" die ich noch nicht registriert habe, welche einen sehr dicken Stamm (wie Salix alba) und die gelben Hängezweige hat.
lg Scholem
Conifers, op 2013-05-11 20:27:43, gewijzigd op 2013-05-11 20:34:08, zei:
Hallo Rainer - unfortunately, google translate isn't making a clear translation of everything in your paragraph, so forgive me if I am not understanding you fully; but:
(a) Salix babylonica can be grown in Europe, it is very winter hardy (native to northwestern China, where winters are much colder than in Germany), but (as it comes from a region with low air humidity), it is very susceptible to the fungal disease Marssonina salicicola which spreads rapidly in Europe's cool, humid air, so does not thrive here.
(b) As mentioned, the common Trauerweide / Weeping Willow (including this specimen) in N Europe is Salix × sepulcralis 'Chrysocoma', a hybrid between Salix babylonica and Salix alba. The name 'Tristis' is often used for 'Chrysocoma', but is an illegitimate name.
With genes from the native disease-resistant S. alba, S. × sepulcralis is less affected by Marssonina disease, though not immune (and can be badly affected in cooler, wetter areas like Scotland and northern England).
Conifers, op 2013-05-11 20:31:17, gewijzigd op 2013-05-11 20:31:55, zei:
Hallo Ig - "gelben Hängezweige hat": it is Salix × sepulcralis 'Chrysocoma'. The cultivar name Chrysocoma is from Greek "chryso-", yellow, + "coma", hair. True Salix babylonica has brown, not yellow, twigs.
mein Englisch ist jetzt leider nicht gut genug. Das mit Salix babylonica habe ich verstanden. Ich dachte, es läge an den Wintertemperaturen. Demnach aber mehr an der feuchten Luft und der Pilzkrankheit. Danke für die Erläuterung.
Ist das aber jetzt hier mit 'Tristis' richtig beschrieben? Oder ist es doch eine andere Art? Salix × sepulcralis 'Chrysocoma' finde ich hier nicht. Bei Salix × sepulcralis gibt es hier nur 'Erythroflexuosa'. Oder ist dass das gleiche?
die Diskussion dort ist aber leider auch Englisch. Aber soweit wie ich es jetzt verstanden habe, ist Salix × sepulcralis identisch mit Salix alba 'Tristis' ist. Es handelt sich geschichtlich gesehen nur um zwei unterschiedliche Bezeichnungen. Demnach kann man beide Bezeichnungen verwenden. Das ist auch mein bisheriger Wissenstand gewesen. Ich bitte jetzt um eine kurze Bestätigung, ob das so korrekt ist.
TROBI records one in Kent, England, with a girth of over 5m, but it is difficult to know the largest, as 'Plantierensis' are so often mislabelled / misidentified as 'Italica'. But a 6 metre girth does not surprise me, as 'Plantierensis' is much more vigorous than 'Italica'.
Surveys in Britain to determine the accurate identity of fastigiate poplars have found that 'Plantierensis' outnumbers 'Italica' by about 20:1. About the same ratio is likely in other N European countries.
I think this database is a very interesting and stimulating subject. Until now we have reached an enourmous amount of inventory of nice and interesting trees. I think for now we are at the point to start a quality discussion. I do not have a start option, but if I see a Abeel-tree inserted under 4 metres girth, I think a trespass is reached. and we have to start a serious discussion. I invite you all to have a serious discussion about what trees and under which circumstances, trees are placed on this database.
I see the records for a species and when it's many measurements I try to do a average with the datas.
Of course for some species, we have not yet enough datas but I search in the web the measurements which can reach a sort of tree in his natural area and in places who are similar or in a park overseas(more difficult..).
For example we hav'nt many sepcimens for shrubs and I try to complete these datas (Crataegus, Sambuca, Cornus, Euonymus, Buxus,...)
We can considere that they are not trees, but sometimes, specimens exceed the standards.
There should be no minimum therehold to measurements that people can add to the database. For me the tree database is very important already, especially because the data are reliable, height measurements for the record lists are only accepted when they are measured according to the sinus-method, and data can and will be checked by others. Every measurement on circ., height, age, crown, etc is very welcome. Although my concern is about the age data, many times it is just a wild guess. We will have to deal with, coring is only allowed with special permission.
I have calculated averages and maxima for many broadleaved from MT and published it in my book "Loofbomen".
For practical reasons for me the threshold for rare tree species is min. 2 meters circ, and min. 20 m. height. But it is evident that a special treespecies of 3 m circ. can be only 10 m tall, and then it is also in the record lists. But no problem at all. It provides valuable information.
When someone wants to add data from smaller species or shrubs: fine to me and welcome.
I agree with Leo. Over time this database can provide valuable information on how well certain trees can do it in certain geographical areas. Therefore measurements of smaller trees can give good reference material in the future.
There are also essential for the growth rate curves I'll plan to add to the site in the future.
All tables are sorted by girth, so if you're not interested in small "abeel" trees, you're perfectly able not to visit the bottom parts of the tables. The size of the database is virtually unlimited, so as long as measurements are reliable they are welcome.
If I combine the recent reactions and some older experiences, my conclusion is clear. On this database there are a lot of people with different interests and preferences. Some adore woods, some the trees, some the environment, some the age, some the girth, some the image-quality.
As far as I can see, this site develops from a focus on monumentality to database.
This could be forseen.
For me it's ok to know which way we travel. For now I can orientate on the database-aspect and use this database for my own surroundings and interests. For others in Germany, or France, Belgium aso the same is true.
Nevertheless, I would urge for a view in which the monumentality of trees is a dominant aspect of this database and can be a leading focus on a visit. I am sure that only that way we can brothen the view of importance of trees in the world. I am sure Tim will find a solution for this view in time. So Conifers and other English friends do not despair.
The only thing you can do in the meantime is enter the coordinates in e.g. https://maps.google.com/ and try to find the location that you see then back on the map on the registration page.
no, Kaisereiche does not want to click on the map to indicate the position of a tree, he or she wants to add the coordinates directly in the database without using the map.
Hi, I have changed some data on trees that might be irrelevant. Nevertheless I thought it is more honorous to give credits to the right persons WHO first uploaded a specific tree.
danke für die schönen Fotos von der Flatterulme. Ich werde mich heute aufmachen und sie suchen - ich bin eigentlich ein totaler Laie, was Bäume betrifft und nur für meinen Vater (Biologe - Entomologe) unterwegs, der schon sehr betagt ist, und bestimmte Bäume für seine wissenschaftlichen entomologische Arbeiten sucht. Ich hoffe, ich finde den Baum. Mein Vater weiß von diesem Baum schon seit über 40 Jahren und ich habe ihn jetzt im Internet gefunden - nochmals danke für die genaue Beschreibung - und bin auf dem Weg dorthin.
Auf dem "Homepage" dieser Site, steht das ich diesem Baum gestern ändert habe. Das is nicht so. Aber es gescheht ab und zu das wenn zwei Leute auf dieselbem Zeit etwas ändern auf diesem Site, dass dan die Namen erwechselt würden.
I've been thinking quite a lot about this bug lately and I'm currently in the phase I understand well what exactly is causing this. I'm working on a solution that will go "live" soon, and that would allow the site to have an unlimited number of concurrent users that are not interfering with each other.
Kind regards,
Tim
Tim, op 2013-05-06 16:20:55, gewijzigd op 2013-05-06 16:27:29, zei:
Hi Han,
the bug is solved. Luckily the system registered everything correctly, this was only a visualization bug in list with recent changes (it showed correct data incorrectly for some situations).
Now the list with recent changes shows:
Han van Meegeren heeft de beschrijving van een zomerlinde bij de kerk, Overpelt, België gewijzigd.
