Die Donau ist zurück in ihrem Bett und ich habe die ersten Baumaufsuchungen hinter mir. Ich bin zu einigen Erkenntnissen gelangt, die ich teilen möchte, da sie bei anderen gefluteten Gebieten in Deutschland, Tschechien oder Ungarn ähnlich sein werden.
Soweit ich es derzeit beurteilen kann, sind alle großen (registrierten) Bäume im überfluteten Gebiet noch vorhanden.
Das Maß bei 0 ist nicht mehr vorhanden, da sich der Boden um ca. 30 - 50 cm gehoben hat. Das Maß bei 1,30 ist jetzt bei ca. 90 cm. Trotzdem ist dieser Umfang nicht mehr 8,02m sondern 8,19m. Ich gehe davon aus, daß dieser Baum nicht so stark gewachsen ist im Laufe der letzten 6 Monate, sondern nur (wie andere auch) sich mit Wasser vollgesogen hat.
Das Geschiebe besteht zu ca. 70% aus Nährstoffreicher Erde und Mineralien aus den Alpen, sowie aus 30% feinem Sand. Die ganze Au lebt ja von solchen Überschwemmungen, sie sind nur für den Menschen eine Katastrophe.
danke für deine Zeilen. Ja die Quercus robur 'Pectinata'ist offensichtlich richtig. Das sieht man eindeutig an den Blättern. Die Sorbus aria habe ich trotz längerem Suchen nicht gefunden. Habe immer nach den Merkmalen ausgeschaut.
Bei der Feld-Ulme habe ich auch lange überlegt, nach Blattvergleich mit der Literatur. Bin hier auch unsicher! Das wäre dann hier auch eine Rarität.
Bei der Fagus sylvatica 'Asplenifolia' habe ich keine Ahnung. die Blätter waren von unten durch den Wind nicht gut zu erkennen. Hier fehlt mir auch noch die Erfahrung!
Ein weiteres Schild für eine angebliche Rot-Eiche ist m. E. offensichtlich auch falsch. Habe dem Baum deshalb keine Beachtung geschenkt.
Und wichtig für mich, ich befasse mich seit längerer Zeit mit den Bauten von Ludwig Persius, auch den Nachweis für Persius als Architekt für den Bau des Gutshauses habe ich in der entsprechenden Literatur nicht gefunden.
In dem Park stimmt also so Einiges nicht ;-(. Die Exoten stehen hier oft eng neben den Einheimischen und sind damit schwierig zu fotografieren. Der Park ist aber sehr reizvoll und ich werde nach Kontakt mit dem "Verein zur Erhaltung der Gutsanlagen Dahlen" versuchen die offenen Fragen zu klären und auch auf jeden Fall wieder hin fahren, hoffentlich bei fotofreundlichem Wetter.
This summer I will surf in California, not just on the waves of the Pacific Ocean but in the Coastal Redwoods Parks and in Groves of Giant Sequoias in the Sierra.
List of the places I will visit
Locations on Coast:
- Santa Barbara, biggest Ficus of North-America
- Big Sur, Pfeiffer State Park;
- Carmel, Point Lobos;
- Santa Cruz, Big Basin Redwoods State Park;
- San Francisco, Muir Woods;
- Guerneville, Armstrong Redwoods State Park;
- Leggett, Frank and Bess Smithe Grove – Smithe State Natural Reserve;
- Avenue of the Giants;
- Weott, Humboldt Redwoods State Park, Montgomery Woods;
- Piercy, Lilley Redwood Park – Fraternal Monarch o World Famous Tree House;
- Eureka, Sequoia Park;
- Orik, Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park;
- Crescent City, Redwood National Park – Del Norte Redwoods State Park – Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park.
Locations on Sierra:
- Calaveras of the Big Trees;
- Toulomne Grove;
- Yosemite Valley;
- Mariposa Grove;
- Nelder Grove;
- Sequoia National Forest;
- Big Stump Grove;
- General Grant Grove;
- Converse Basin Grove;
- Redwood Mountain Grove;
- Lost Grove;
- Giant Forest, General Sherman Tree;
- Muir Grove;
- Atwell-East Fork Grove;
- Inyo National Forest – Ancient Bristlecone Pine Forest;
- Mojave Desert - Joshus Trees.
I've opened a page in Facebook, I will send every day at least one shot from the Tour. Please Join it!
Sons of the trip will be a long reportage for the italian newspapaer La Stampa (Turin) and a new book titled "Jonas of the Sequoias".
«And so Lord created giant sequoias, at the end of the sixth day, Lord created biggest trees that Men could see on Earth, so high to touch the sky and so huge not to be comparable with fishes living in the depths» [Tiziano Fratus]
Yes indeed. Someone of our Spanish editors keeps adding new tree species by putting the Spanish name in the "genus" box, and the full scientific name in the "species epiphet" box. This causes cleanup work for me every time, and there might be a delay of one to two days between the registration and my cleanup work, as you noticed.
Enjoying England despite the bad weather. Seen marvellous trees, seen marvellous locations, spoken marvellous people. Pity that internet-connections are horrible. Cannot upload much. I will do so in a week or two. Be prepared. England is stunning.
PS I am bnt interested in figures but in quality. So imnages and elderness and not heigth
Yes it's a fantastic tree. I was here in 2009 and didn't have the courage to go in and ask permission to see the tree. It is on private grounds you know. I still regret that. But now i went in and the tenants were very helpfull and showed me to the exact place of the tree. It is really a fabulous tree.
Después de maravillarme con el algarrobo milenario que descubrí hace un par de semanas en Sant Joan de Moró.
Eureka!!! resulta que no solo no es el mas viejo del termino municipal de este pueblo, si no que a escasos quinientos metros, hay uno mas viejo, con 7,70mts de perímetro, medido a un metro y medio del suelo.
Si tenemos en cuenta que el crecimiento del algarrobo es similar al del olivo y que las medidas del olivo, para considerarlo milenario, son que mida más de tres metros y medio de perímetro, medido a una distancia de 1,3mts del suelo, resulta que en una misma finca y la colindante, existen más de diez algarrobos milenarios. No quiero yo pensar lo que puede albergar este maravilloso termino municipal, aun para mi por descubrir.
Si no estoy equivocado, creo que no, por lo que he buscado a fondo en internet, en Sant Joan de Moró están en buenas condiciones, pese a estar algunos un poco descuidados, los algarrobos más viejos del mundo. Todo un honor para este pueblo en que los algarrobos podrían terminar siendo una de sus señas de identidad.
Los romanos ya cultivaron aquí algarrobos y olivos y desde entonces han sido la base de la economía local que junto a los almendros sostuvo al pueblo hasta la llegada de los azulejos ceramicos.
Junto al antiguo camino que discurría desde Mas de Flors a L´Alcora quedan los restos de una villa romana con sus termas, como prueba de su asentamiento por estos lugares.
Algarrobo milenario a menos de un kilometro de sant Joan de Moró. El termino municipal de este pueblo alberga seguramente algunos de los algarrobos mas antiguos del mundo. Rodeando a estos ejemplares existen un gran numero de algarrobos tambien milenarios, si nos atenemos a las medidas perimetrales de ellos.
Anyone affected by the torrential rains and flooding which hare hitting central Europe at the moment, hopefully not? For once we have been having lovely settled, warm, sunny weather over here for the last few weeks after all the deluges and floods that we have had over the last few years. In my own opinion, instead of wasting billions on space exploration, Mars landings and all the other ego boosting rubbish, the money should be spent on developing some sort of global satellite system that could somehow control the world's weather, pressure patterns. Hurricanes could be dispersed by filling the low pressure, low pressures could be filled to prevent too much rain in other places. Low pressures could be sent to drought hit regions of Africa to give them proper harvests and end hunger, nice high pressures could be sent to us lot in Northern Europe. The highs could be steered to a position wanted to prevent Scandinavian Highs forming and bringing those bitter easterlies like we had for all last spring. All the people in the world should start a campaign for this I think, something that could control the weather would be the single greatest thing in human history.
We had some local flooding for two days but our river is so small that there was not much damage. However, my son and I had a nice day in a park along the river. It was raining all the day, we had full rain gear, walkways were submerged by 10cm of water in places. Particularly my 3 y old son had great fun!
I am involved every day, because I am volunteering pushing the mud away from the houses. Most of the fishermen houses along "my" areas at the danube river are 1m under the highwatermark, so every furniture is crashed. The whole area is full of mud, some places more than 2m high.
I am everyx day outside, but it will need more than a year to bring the whole area to the same situation as 14 days ago.
Most of "my " registrated trees are still standing, but I have not seen all, because the danube is still high, that some ares are not available to meet by feet. (From Haslau to Regelsbrunn and from Wildungsmauer to Bad Deutsch Altenburg)
On MT, we favour height measurements to the average ground level ("mid-slope point"). 63.79m was the height to the highest ground level and 64.22m to the average ground level (Michael Spraggon e-mail, 13.6.13). Therefore I changed the height to 64.22m.
bicri, à 2013-06-08 16:56:05, édité à 2013-06-15 09:35:26, a dit:
ifs communs celui de gauche mesure une circonférence à 1.50 m de 4.40 mètres , sa hauteur est de 14 m son envergure de 12 mètres son âge de 250 années , celui de droite à 1.50 m mesure 3.40 m de circonférence sa hauteur est de 12 mètres , son envergure de 10 mètres son âge de 250 années.
Grant Hadwin realized too little, too late what logging was doing to the environment. His zeal for protest and reform was ill-conceived and in the process he sacrificed a Golden tree and a symbol of Haida tribes and the people of British Columbia's Queen Charlotte Islands
2. The Man Who Planted Trees: Lost Groves, Champion Trees, and an Urgent Plan to Save the Planet
Another true story about a man who had an NDE(Near Death Experience) and a vision in which he was told to save the Big Trees. If you don’t believe in NDE’s that’s OK. David Milarch’s story is compelling nonetheless. His vision was about cutting trimmings of the Big Trees for regrowth using and capturing the same DNA of these Big Trees. He ran a tree nursery all of his life out of Michigan. His training served him well but his own difficulties were his constant obstacles to his goals.
3. The Man Who Planted Trees
Jean Giono (Author), Michael McCurdy (Illustrator),
This is another old book by the same title. It’s 72 pages long and is also a classic book. This book inspired many people around the world to plant and grow trees. I haven’t read it yet but it’s on my list.
The modern true story of young botanists, amateur naturalists, and college kids that discover the California Redwoods. They examine research, climb and live in the trees to find out their magic. They end up discovering new worlds atop of these trees.
5. The Big Burn: Teddy Roosevelt and the Fire that Saved America
Another true story of the 1910 forest fire that burned throughout much of Washington, Idaho, and Montana. The thing that makes this an interesting read is the larger than life characters of Gifford Pinchot and Teddy Roosevelt. Reading about the fire is fascinating, the effects of the fire were incredible, and the fallout of environmental, social, national, and political effects were a galvanizing force for the National Parks.
'And now for something completely different'. Thought that I would put a photo of this on as it is ususual, not a tea plantation on a hillside in Sri Lanka or India but a hillside of Cherry Laurel looking very like a tea plantation in the water gardens.
This appears to be the new height record. Excellent!
123RedRob, à 2013-06-11 17:26:08, édité à 2013-06-11 17:27:51, a dit:
Hello Kouta, Willows are trees which this area of Yorkshire has in great abundance, I have found and measured loads already of c22 m but this is the tallest so far. The B&I record is 29.5 metres at Bishop Stortsford, Herts in 2001 so not far behind, how this 29 metre tree was measured? Owen has mentioned that the 26 metre Walnut that I measured is the tallest reliably measured, the B&I record is 27 metres and one of 30 metres was reported in Scotland in 1988 but the measurement method is not known.
Andre, do you live anywhere near a place called the Chateau of Vrigny? I have been searching to see if I can find any reference to the 55m Plane trees in France and instead have come across mentions in books of a Cedar of Lebanon which was reported as being 55 metres and 9 feet in diameter from 1881. I wonder if this tree or any other big ones have survived in this location? The websites on the web don't have great photos of the area.
123RedRob, à 2013-06-07 17:29:23, édité à 2013-06-07 17:31:18, a dit:
This group of trees are the trees that I was referring to on the Nikon Forestry Pro thread. They were coppery burnt orange when I visited last a month ago so I think that they will be Populus Canadensis Robusta. I have made three visits for measuring sessions already but I think that I will have to stop yet again at some point. They are on private land with no public footpaths near so I cannot get really near them but even if I did I don't think the measuring position would be as good as this, the bases are hidden when viewed through the binoculars and I think so much of the base is definitely below the land level seen below them. As said, on every visit so far I get the same consistant and yet inconsistant results, many no measurements trying to hit the tips, most readings 35.8-36.2 but on my three visits I have also recorded at least two readings of 39-39.2 metres, twice on my visit today? It puzzled me at first but the consistancy of the inconsistancy is now possibly making sense. I am measuring from a down slope here, cannot see the bases properly but aiming at the bases of the trees that I can just see. There is foliage in front though, the bases are not clear in view. What can explain these consistant inconsistancies? Kouta once reported something like this? I think myself that the laser is penetrating through the front foliage of the Willows in front of the Poplar bases and this may be giving the c39 metre readings, my beam is coming in from an angle from above. The c35-36 metre readings the laser is hitting the Willows at the front and not penetrating, the Willows are in front of the Poplar trunk bases and what I am hitting is higher because my beam is coming in from above. It is the same experience that I had with the Sequoiadendron at Hebden Wood but I was measuring from below in that instance and it gave a higher reading than it should have done. The bases of these trees are hidden in the small river ravine and if these trees are 39.2 metres, I would have to assign abit more to account for this. I am going to have yet another go and if I get the same consistant inconsistancy, I think I will have to say this is what is happening and report this tree (tallest tip on left) as at least 39 metres and probably c40 metres.
Abit of a waffle on anyway but just interesting to report this unusual experience.
Can anyone identify the light green Poplar (it is a Poplar) to the left of the darker Robustas? I took some more photos of these but they have come out blurred? The height is pretty impressive whatever they are, a pretty clean view of the lower trunk base albeit still abit hidden by nettles and in the ravine top possibly.
When the base of the tree is hidden behind vegetation, the best way is to measure at the 1,3 or 2 metres or whatever meters, and then add (or subtract) this height to the top measurement; beware of the below 0-horizon reading in the lader, because it gives no negative in the screen.
Your explanation may well be correct. You should measure the tree like Leo explained. I measure almost all the trees with this method, even if the base is well visible, because there is always grass or something on the ground and the result is not exact if you shoot "somewhere" on the ground. You choose a visible point on the trunk or you can attach there a piece of paper or something and shoot it. Then you measure the height of the point with a tape from the up-slope point and the down-slope point and take the mean, which you add to the measured height from the point to the top.
Another explanation may be that your laser is shaking when you push the button, which gives a wrong angle.
Hello Kouta, Leo, I have used your techniques quite a few times ( even have photos of some of the Hebden Wood trees with bits of white paper pinned to the trunk) but I wear size 12 shoes so usually I am able to tramp all the grass and nettles that I can get to flat if I can get to the tree base, few can stand up to size 12s. I am also now very aware of the shake due to wind with these lasers when you press the button and try to visit trees on the least windy day (difficult in Britain) It has been a lovely period for the last couple of weeks, very little wind and warm sunshine, I have made hay. I also adapted my style for button pressing pretty quickly when I started using the laser, instead of pressing on the button which can cause movement I personally now roll my finger over the button which causes the least movement possible.
These Poplars are on private land and I don't know who owns the land (at the moment) so am not able to get to the bases to assess or stick abit of paper on. Through the binoculars parts of the trunk are visible behind the frontal willows and their foliage but maybe not clearly, these trees are verging on more difficult on the range of measuring. I do definitely think that measurements will vary depending on what the laser hits when aiming at vegetation in front of trees, the consistant inconsistancy with these is not a coincidence.
Karlheinz, Rainer and I will meet and measure trees on the 23th of June in the Exotenwald Weinheim, about halfway between Frankfurt and Karlsruhe, Germany. The Exotenwald is a 60 hectares forest arboretum with stands of Sequoiadendron, Metasequoia, Cedrus atlantica, Thuja plicata, Abies grandis, Calocedrus decurrens etc. Many stands are already 140 years old. Sequoiadendron has reached about 50-55 metres, we don't know yet exactly as the methods have been a bit obscure. But we are confident we will get good measurements in June.
The MT users are welcome! If you like to take part, please reply to this message or contact me.
Hello Wim, where are you planning to visit in England, any tree spotting involved, hope so?
Your measuring expedition sounds good guys but just abit too far for me as well. I have visited Germany in the past in passing on a tour (always wanted to visit the Alps and Bavaria, Neuschswanstein Castle was superb, but being completely honest did not really enjoy it as I am a vegetarian and Germany and Austria are not great places for vegetarians I found.
You cannot have it all. I strongly advice you to not let your personal preferences obstruct your other intrests. I really like Germany,it's nature, it's hospitality and the menus in the cafés, restaurants and hotels. I also like these things in England. I think it is wise to stick to the positive and not get sour because there are some aspects of life in any culture you don't agree.
As for my trip to England, I will be in Dover for 2 nights (and off course in Kent therefore), 4 nights in London , 7 nights southwest of London and 7 nights in Stratford upon avon. (Northwest of London near Birmingham) I have gathered a load of information on trees and Woods and as my wife will let me.....I will come back with a load of inspiring tree-inventories.
If you are in the neighbourhood we will have a beer or so.
Hello Wim,(I do like your name Wim by the way, Wim Brinkerink really does roll off the tongue nicely) nothing about being sour, Germany and Austria have some beautiful countryside and very nice people but Yorkshire people have a saying, they call a 'spade a spade' don't pussyfoot about and tell the truth and I am one. I am not going to be liar, I tell the truth and call a spade a spade and in this case I have told the truth. If some of you guys come over here you would probably think the same with our food, Sisley for instance probably wouldn't think much to egg and chips or bangers and mash with the gourmet type food he may be used to in France (I imagine)
Wim, you probably have an itinerary already planned at the moment but I have studied up on alot of the trees on the Register and could give you some ideas if you like? I would love to see the B&I champion Aesculus Hippocastanum of 39 metres (this is probably on the conservative side as well as Owen always airs on the conservative side) near Arundel Castle for instance (visited Arundel about eight years ago but didn't know that this was here and wasn't measuring trees at that time either), Polecat Copse at Haslemere is also superb, the Douglas Firs will now be 55 metres plus as they were 54 a few years ago, it is a superb valley with Surrey's tallest trees. Some photographs of these trees would be great as well. Petworth Park also has some superb old Oaks and other trees.
Thank you for your tips. And don’t misunderstand me; I like it when you speak off your mind. I can handle it. I like it when people say what they think. The problem is that sometimes this communication on paper can lead to misunderstandings. Never mind. We can ask each other the exact intentions.
I will study what you suggest. I do not have a complete Itinerary yet. You know, my wife is there with me and I have to be flexible. If it were only me, it would be simple.
So my strategy is to have a lot of information and see at the moment which trees or woods I can visit. I want to keep my wife interested and not over ask her.
I do have a lot of books. For England, I have; Hidden trees by Archie Miles, Heritage trees by Stokes and Rodger, several books of Thomas Pakenham and off course Champion trees by Owen Johnson. I even have some very old books about walks in the woods written by Gerald Wilkinson.
I could fill a year with their suggestions. Nevertheless, I will give your suggestions some extra attention. But remember, I see a different focus here on MT. Some are especially in woods and height records; some are interested in form and eccentricity.
My aim starts with the image of the single tree. Trunk, bowl and photographic impact are the most important things for me.
Some fine trees there, thanks for the links Jeroen. My sister used to live at Woking and many times have we driven down the narrow streets of Petworth but I never actually made a visit to the place. The Chestnuts are impressive, I took some very similar trunk photos of the Studley chestnuts so may upload some of them.
Here two other photos of Tim: http://www.monumentaltrees.com/db/01/full/01011.jpg and http://www.monumentaltrees.com/db/04/full/04414.jpg . At this last photo with a group of tree measurers and - lovers lunching under the tallest known oak of Belgium after measuring by climbing the tallest known beech of the same country. At left Tim, beside him Marc Meyer, then some Dutch climbers and Belgian forest researchers, in front of the trunk Leo Goudzwaard and second from right Han van Meegeren, the named persons all very active at MT.
MoritzNagel, à 2013-06-09 21:08:22, édité à 2013-06-09 21:15:48, a dit:
I was in Weinheim a few years ago. It's really worth the trip. Besides of the exotic trees, there was also a really big and tall common ash. And when you're in Weinheim, be sure to visit the castle and the old cedrus libani and ginkgos.
With another new user of the Forestry Pro it will be interesting to compare experiences. From my own experience, another note that I would like to add, report with the this laser (it is probably the same with all the lasers)is that if you use it heavily and continually, re-taking measurements uninterupted, it begins to give odd and inconsistant readings. I don't think that this is any fault with the laser but drain on the Lithium CR2 battery but it is something that wants remembering. I do tend to make multiple measurements with important trees and this is when I have noticed this. Let the laser go off and leave for a few minutes and it is fine again.
I have never used the 3 point measurement system.
The Distant Priority mode as said before, I am not convinced that this works through my own useage, the beam still hits and records from the first thing it hits I have found. I wouldn't trust it anyway.
Any other comments or experiences relating to this laser I would be interested to hear.
ich habe bei meinem Forestry Pro so etwas noch nicht bemerkt. Ich bin mir jetzt aber auch nicht ganz sicher, ob ich dich richtig verstanden habe. Was mir hinsichtlich Batterie aufgefallen ist. Meine war bereits nach knapp 5 Monaten leer. Beim Vorgängermodell, dem Forestry 550, hat bei mir die Batterie knapp ein Jahr gehalten.
I have not noticed anything with my Forestry Pro. But now I'm not quite sure if I understood you correctly. What struck me regarding battery. Mine was already after just 5 months empty. The previous model, the Forestry 550, for me, the battery has just held for a year.(Rainer)
Die gleichen Ergebnisse wie ich, habe meine ersten CR2 Batterie nicht lange und erwischte mich heraus, dass es so schnell abgelaufen, war ich nicht Transport eines Ersatz. Ich jetzt tragen zwei Ersatzteile. Ich habe eher eine Menge Kontrolle und mehrere Höhenbestimmung von Bäumen besonders die wichtigen tun und es macht die Batterie entladen, und es beginnt zu geben mis-Lesungen.
The same findings as myself, my first CR2 battery did not last long and caught me out it expired so quickly, I wasn't carrying a spare. I now carry two spares. I do tend to do alot of checking and multiple heighting of trees particulary the important ones and it does drain the battery and it starts give mis-readings.
vor ein paar Wochen war ich auf Baumtour. Als ich den ersten Baum messen wollte, stellte ich fest, dass die Batterie leer ist. Obwohl das Nikon erst knapp 5 Monate alt ist. Zum Glück habe ich in einem großen Lebensmittelladen gleich eine neue Batterie gefunden, so dass ich die Bäume doch noch messen konnte. Mir ist allerdings bei den letzten Messungen vor dem Ausfall nicht aufgefallen, dass die Batterie fast leer ist. Wird ja im Display eigentlich angezeigt.
123RedRob, à 2013-06-06 17:35:24, édité à 2013-06-06 17:36:20, a dit:
A few weeks ago I was on tour tree. When I tried to measure the first tree, I realized that the battery is empty. Although the Nikon is only about 5 months old. Luckily, I immediately found a new battery in a large grocery store, so I still was able to measure the trees. I am, however, not noticed at the last measurement before the failure, the battery is almost empty. If yes actually displayed on the screen.
Agree with Rainer's comments here, there is a little battery visible in the viewfinder which is supposed to drop bars as the battery runs low but it didn't/doesn't do it on my laser, the battery/ies just expire suddenly without warning.
Vereinbaren Sie mit Rainer Kommentare hier, gibt es eine kleine grüne Batterie sichtbar im Sucher, die angeblich Bars fallen, wenn die Batterie zur Neige geht, aber es ist nicht / nicht tun es auf meinem Laser, die Batterie / n nur plötzlich verfallen Warnung
Yes, I should have warned you to take always a reserve battery with you. Indeed the laser rangefinder just stops working without warning at the screen. I had it the first time when I was on a measuring trip far from home and far from a shop.
To my experience the batteries work very different between 3 months and over a year, with rather intensive use.
I never experience very inconsistant results, but with very cold, winter weather it works less good.
best way to increase accuracy is to compare your laser measurements with tapemeasurements from a building. JPh and I noticed that we the douglas fir we measured 50-50.3 metres tall, was in fact after climbing and after tape-drop was only 49,75. So make at least 10 measurements on important tall trees, and disregard the maximum values, then make an average. Then, the results are reliable,
I am currently having a very interesting experience measuring a group of trees. They are on my way home from work when I visit a place called Selby and I have stopped and had several measuring sessions and I am getting the same consistant measurements but inconsistant measurements?! It sounds abit double dutch really, no offence intended, just a saying over here of confusion at times, but it isn't. I think I know what is happening really and it may be what Kouta? once reported when he made some measurements. They are significant trees as the height will pip the B&I record for this tree species.
When measuring these trees, the highest height you get is the apex tip on a great many occasions. This is why I sometimes get battery drain, hovering the laser + over the apex tip trying to hit it on the very end and ending up with multiple no-readings. The ranges I give for heights are usually a lower one which is a banker height at a solid part of the higher tip to the very apex tip attempts.
Leo Goudzwaard, à 2013-06-07 08:31:32, édité à 2013-06-07 11:42:57, a dit:
I do not agree with this, it is for 100% a mistake and several people are just copying one opinion. 'Plantierensis' has a wider crown and easy to distinguish from Italica, and rare in the Netherlands. The named specimens in botanical gardens show real Plantierensis. Italica is already known from 1655 on a painting. Plantierensis originates only from 1884. Have a look at old paintings and photographs, they have the same crown shape as our modern Italica specimens.
A second characteristic is the buttressed stembase, clearly at Italica, not at Plantierensis.
The picture of the very slender poplar Conifers has posted as Italica is not the Italica clone, but most probably the 'Afghanica' clone: light grey stems, less buttressed and poorly growing in Northern Europe. Abundant in Turkey f.i. I have seen many of them.
Sorry Leo, but that is not correct. As long ago as 1938 (G S Cansdale, The Black Poplars), a detailed scientific survey of Black Poplars found that 'Plantierensis' greatly outnumbered 'Italica' in Britain at least, and since then the predominance of 'Plantierensis' has increased further as it is much healthier in the climate here. I see no reason for the Netherlands to differ in this. Cansdale remarked "Both varieties commonly pass under the name 'Lombardy Poplar' and are distinguished only by botanists, so that the superior numbers of the latter ['Plantierensis'] may well be due to its representing a more vigorous stock" (cited in W J Bean, Trees & Shrubs Hardy in the British Isles). As further evidence, Alan Mitchell found that most fastigiate Black Poplars in Britain have finely pubescent young shoots, proof of their being clones with some P. nigra var. betulifolia ancestry (i.e., 'Plantierensis').
The very narrow tree I posted was not 'Afghanica' (which I have also seen many of in Bulgaria and Turkey); the bark colour is darker than the photo suggests, and it was a male tree, as 'Italica' is, while 'Afghanica' is female. It was also buttressed at the base (not visible in the photo, hidden in shrubs).
I do not think the painting provides any useful evidence. There is no proof that it is the same clone as 'Italica', it is perfectly possible that more than one clone of fastigiate Black Poplar occurred in Italy.
"Best there should be done some genetic research on different specimen" - well, yes, of course, but where can we find €50,000 to get it done??
Leo Goudzwaard, à 2013-06-08 05:49:52, édité à 2013-06-08 07:55:37, a dit:
As long as there is no genetic proof that we have been naming Italica wrong for ages, we should not change it. Again I have to state that this started as only one opinion, and no proof. Small differences in haires at young shoots are no proof and variable in many species and change over the season, as in Populus nigra. The variability in Ulmus for instance is the reason that Ulmus japonica proofed to be not a different species from U. davidiana. The most recent example: 2 days ago in Limburg we (4 botanists) found out that Anemone ranunculoides can be glabrous or pubescent, as also A. nemorosa is. Which is not correctly described in the Dutch Heukels Flora. And it is impossible that one tree clone can be replaced by another in a large part of Europe in such a short period, in the early 20th century. Plantierensis only ocurred for the first time in a nursery in 1884, it took them at least 10 years for breeding many specimen and 30 years to become young-mature trees. In 1938 there was a survey that all the Italica have changed and suddenly they were large trees? Then if I estimate this in a right way, it is only a period of 17 years for replacing. Italica was already abundant 100 years before 1884 and it was very good growing, not poorly at all.
I checked young shoots of 2 Italica specimen in Wageningen today: and they are glabrous.
"As long as there is no genetic proof that we have been naming Italica wrong for ages, we should not change it" — if that was the sole way of allowing determinations, then no changes would ever have been done from author's first descriptions until the last few years; we would still be talking about Pinus larix L., etcetera. Other evidence including morphology, disease susceptibility, etc., etc., is perfectly valid, and there is plenty of it.
"Again I have to state that this started as only one opinion, and no proof" — well-researched, and with abundant strong evidence.
"And it is impossible that one tree clone can be replaced by another in a large part of Europe in such a short period, in the early 20th century" — perfectly possible, with fast-growing, and often short-lived, poplars.
"Plantierensis only ocurred for the first time in a nursery in 1884, it took them at least 10 years for breeding many specimen and 30 years to become young-mature trees" — no; it was first offered for sale in 1884; the breeding and propagation of numbers for sale was completed by then.
"In 1938 there was a survey that all the Italica have changed and suddenly they were large trees? Then if I estimate this in a right way, it is only a period of 17 years for replacing" — no; 54 years. And the survey says nothing about the specimens checked being large.
"Italica was already abundant 100 years before 1884 and it was very good growing, not poorly at all" — it was not 'very good growing', but was, and still is, very susceptible to disease. W J Bean wrote (at least 7th ed., 1950, possibly earlier; repeated in 8th ed., 1976) "The true Lombardy poplar is held in less regard than formerly, and the reasons for its fall from grace is obvious enough, especially in country districts, where repeated attacks by the Marssonina fungus often kill the lower part of the crown, and also weaken the tree by causing premature leaf fall. It is almost a century ago* since the ill-health of the Lombardy was first remarked on, and it was then suggested that the clone was beginning to die of old age, but in fact it is disease that is the primary cause. To some extent the true Lombardy has been displaced by the healthier and more vigorous 'Plantierensis'. This is all to the good, but 'Plantierensis' has no title to the name Lombardy poplar or 'Italica', and only confusion can result if it is sold as such.".
* [i.e., well before 'Plantierensis' came into commerce]
"I checked young shoots of 2 Italica specimen in Wageningen today: and they are glabrous" — that is useful evidence; I tried to check several here but was defeated by the lowest branches being 4m up.
Tim is zijn website oorspronkelijk natuurlijk begonnen als een mammoetbomensite, op alle aspecten van de soort gericht, waaronder ook het kweken van jonge bomen. Later begon hij met MT, maar omdat hij daarop ook de oude site kopieerde, is dat aspect nog steeds aanwezig, inclusief een groot aantal jonge exemplaren.
It's curious that Owen Johnson's tree register doesn't mention this champion horse chestnut. Under the chapter Sussex (in Gazetteer) there is one mentioning "near Arundel; Arundel Castle, bull bay (Magnolia grandiflora) 12 x 64 in 1997, near town gate."
Nevertheless you've made me curious. Perhaps I will find time to visit it. Furthermore I see a big difference in English and continent tourism. In England they want money for every step you take (read every visit). That's not so in Germany and France. Is England more capitalistic or should I say market-oriented?
123RedRob, à 2013-06-06 15:53:24, édité à 2013-06-07 16:31:12, a dit:
Thanks for your comment. And while I was starting to write this mail and saying that it doesn't have the proportions Rob suggested........it suddenly occured to me that Rob is more interested in height and it is a very high tree for a chestnut. !! The girth is 143 x 3,14 (143metres as the diameter)and the height is 39 metres. And that was in 2007. So I understand the enthusiasm of Rob.
Wim, if you do decide to visit would you be able to re-measure it if you can find it? It may have nudged to 40 metres as it appears to be in a ravine from the landranger map. Am I right in thinking that this is a European champion for Horse Chestnut, anyone know what the tallest for species is anywhere, world?
While I am intending to visit Southern England as well in July I may also visit Arundel. But as Owen lives in Sussex, he may very well measure the height of this Horse Chestnut himself again. What kind of laser does he use?
rumpala, à 2013-06-07 16:01:02, édité à 2013-06-07 16:02:40, a dit:
Granit Oak (in Bulgarian: Гранитски дъб) is an English (Pedunculate) oak tree that grows within the boundaries of Granit village, Bulgaria.
The oak measures 2.38 m in diameter and 7.46 m in girth at waist level and reaches 23.4 m in height, but only eastern side branches remain alive. In March 1982 samples were taken with a pressler drill, from which it was estimated that the tree was 1637 years old. With an estimated germination date of 345 AD, it is the oldest tree in Bulgaria and one of the oldest in Europe.
In 1967 the Granit Oak was declared a protected tree and included in the list of the natural monuments of Bulgaria.
In 2010 the oak was featured prominently in a documentary "Live Eternity" (in Bulgarian: Жива Вечност).
Kennelijk weer een foutje van de hortus. Er staan twee meidoorns. Bij de één (deze) is aangegeven dat het om een tweestijlige gaat. 4 meter verder staat een éénstijlige. Ik zal het wijzigen. Binnenkort heb ik contact met de collectiebeheerder en zal het aankaarten.
There are no such plans. Measuring with the laser is not so easy, as the tree stands in dense undergrowth so from the meadow outside the bush it is difficult to get an exact height of the foot of the tree. We measured it several times as 50 and even 50.3 m with laser, but that was thinking the foot was at the same level as we in the meadow, but actually the tree stands between 30 and 50 cm higher.
From the path inside the small forest and only a few meters from the trunk it is difficult to hit the tallest top and we got never the best results.
But next time I am there I will try to measure it again with laser, to see if looks like it has grown taller. To confirm that somebody should climb it again.
bicri, à 2013-06-06 10:21:45, édité à 2013-06-08 16:33:37, a dit:
Chêne pédonculé âge estime à 350/400 ans , hauteur 25 m environ ,circonférence à 1.30 mètres estimée à +- 7.00 mètres Il est impossible de réaliser une mesure précise car entre le côté sud et le côté nord de cet arbre , il y à un remblai servant de chemin , celui ci provoque un dénivelé d'un mètre soixante dix , (1.70 m côté sud au niveau des racines correspondent au niveau du remblai du chemin ) une mesure à 1.30 ne peut être réalisée que sur 1/3 du tronc , celle ci donne une valeur de 2.20 m .Il y a une vingtaine d'années des coupes anarchiques l'ont amputé de deux branches charpentières , l'an passé une branche a cédé(visible sur le cliché) elle mesurait 15 mètres son diamètre et touchait le sol son diamètre était de 0,50 mètres , et son poids estimé. à 3 tonnes ,
Pour donner une idée , la branche qui se trouve à droite de la photo an niveau de l'étoile évaluation se trouve à 3.00 mètres du sol.
Ich denke, daß viele von Euch die Situation an der Donau in Bayern und Österreich verfolgen. Ich bin fast jeden Tag vor Ort und bereite mich auf Arbeitseinsätze nach dem Rückgang der Fluten vor. Zurzeit ist es wichtig, den Wildtieren freien Auslauf an den Dämmen zu gewähren und Schaulustige abzuhalten in deren "Flucht-Gebiet" einzudringen
So wie es derzeit aussieht, sind viele Bäume umgeschmissen und mitgerissen worden. Vor allem in den Bereichen wo massiv abgeholzt wurde, sind die neuen Angriffsflächen von den Fluten dankend angenommen worden, daher sind nicht nur die geschnittenen sondern auch die restliche Baumriesen weg.
Wenn die Wege wieder halbwegs passierbar sind, werde ich eine Bestandsaufnahme starten, was allerdings ebenfalls einige Zeit in Anspruch nehmen wird.
Hallo, Albern ist nur vollgelaufen, fliesst aber nicht, erst hinter dem Hafen fliesst die Donau entlang der Dämme. Die Dämme halten eh alle, vor allem im Norden. Die Wege werden so wie 2002 mit einem halben Meter Gatsch bedeckt sein, sodaß die ersten Wochen und Monate ausschliesslich Gummistiefel das einzig brauchbare Schuhwerk sein wird. Wir werden sehen....
...und nicht zu vergessen, die Myriarden von zu erwartenden Gelsen....
123RedRob, à 2013-06-01 17:04:50, édité à 2013-06-01 17:06:05, a dit:
I have never seen the Walnuts so late as they are this year, this photo was taken this afternoon and the leaves are just unfurling and not yet fully out. How does this compare with elsewhere, at what date were the Walnut trees at this stage in Germany, France, Newcastle area etc? I like to get a human figure in my photos but had to make do with a sheep standing next to the tree.
Very nice and tall Walnut! In Holland the trees are just as late this year because of the very cold weather. The walnuts are among the latest, but exotics like Gleditsia, Catalpa and Ailanthus are even later.
123RedRob, à 2013-06-05 17:51:26, édité à 2013-06-05 17:52:08, a dit:
Not much difference really then Jeroen this year between the Netherlands and Yorkshire. I thought that this tree deserved another photo, it is just short of the B&I record of 27 metres but I have another one which I am waiting to measure when it has full foliage which looks as big as this one.
Hello Kouta, Register doesn't say, just says it is a tall, straight Holly in a Quarry. The Holly at Fountains is hidden when the trees are in full leaf, I completely missed it. I don't visit Fountains in the winter as it always looks at it's best when the leaves are out but I visited at the beginning of last month and the trees are so late this year that most were still leafless and I spotted this dark figure of a tree, scrambled up to it and found this superb Holly.
To know something about the trees in the Tree Register of the British Isles you can mail them at email@example.com. I will give you the addresses of the Director David Alderman and the Registrar Owen Johnson also.
The only tall hollow tree I found was in Germany, but in Corsia (Stella forest / North-east of island)are a grove of this species, composed by specimens with girth and heights between 2,5-3,15 and 15-25 m.
The method of measure is not written and the years of datas is around 1998-2000.
I don't know the limits of this species, but 25 m is already a nice height.
I think Owen is off on one of his measuring trips, Scotland I suspect, at the moment but I can ask him about that Holly if anyone is interested enough. An awful lot of the measurements were reported pre laser or just with distance lasers with separate angle measuring instrument Owen has told me so what this one was? I have just re-measured several trees now on the Register which are no-where near the height originally reported, not with the Forestry Pro anyway. I will stick a few on here anyway at some point.
So happy to see we have some of these majestic beings close by in Ballarat and Daylesford. In the meantime have ordered some seeds of both and will attempt to grow them. Feel a very strong connection to these giants. Wonderful to find this page!
site even though the Sequoia of Lake Bluff Arboretum near Manistee, Michigan was listed. I really like the map showing all the Sequoias in the United States and felt maybe that one in Morton should be looked at and listed. Thanks for a really great site. I signed on to be a member.
Yes, this was a nice surprise from a friend who visited the India country from south to north in winter 2012.
The girth is estimated but the real number is not far from it. Maybe it is the biggest but this area is so large that we can cheked all the teritory (escarpment, surface,the fact that there is little or no prospect about the study of this species.)
A specimen is near him and he have a girth of 6 m (around).
He says me also that we can find Prunus armeniana (girth around 1,55 m ; altitude 1800 to 2500 m).
For the age is a large estimation. It can be near this datas , we know that the species who grows in difficult conditions and important altitudes don't grow so fast.
It's a friend I tried to convert to the remarkables trees research and after few field trips, I considered he was apt to follow the rules of inventory.
Well done for measuring this Kouta, from the photo looks abit tricky and hemmed in although we cannot see the top from the photo. I thought that there must be some big Tila Europea somewhere in Europe, perhaps Sisley will also find some in France.
I have looked at the Species page, is there a separate catagory for Irish Yew to main Taxus Baccata. There is a 15 metre Irish Yew in this photo, tallest I have seen and just short of the B&I champion height.
Would Like To Add Pics Of The tallest LOdgepole Pine In The World, Named Champion, But My City Isn'tAn Option Under San Bernardino County. I LIve In Big Bear Lake, AndThe Tree Resides Within Our VallEy Added The Genus Already, Pinus Contorta, And I Have Pictures As Well :)
If your city is not yet in the list, you can add it yourself by selecting "Add new village or city" in the list of cities. Hopefully now you will be able to continue. A tree is only successfully saved if you also clicked on the map (to get its coordinates) and you clicked "Save" at the bottom after filling in the necessary other information.
Always automatic scripts called robots are trying to make dummy registrations at the site (robot attacks). I have put up quite some barriers to keep them out, but recently some more advanced ones have managed to break them (including the captcha). These fake users come from different ip addresses and don’t have a pattern in the email addresses I could filter on (like many dots, or no vowels, …). This means I will have to make the registration procedure a bit more tight. I’m likely to ask a simple math question like: how much is the sum of 2 and 3? As long a robots are not able to understand this question, this will get me only the humans. It is always a cat and mouse game.
For the moment I have disabled the registration, to reduce my cleaning up work as I’m removing these users again.
In between, I know, that some "Nature-Police-man" or selfmade "police-man" are looking at MT. And sometimes they know very exactly, when some user (ME) do Pics or registration positions, which are located in not-allowed areas.
The trees can see everybody, but the discussions only the registrated users!
Be careful with that information and try to look at Your words, which every "user" can see.