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They set fire on one of the best oaks in Europe!
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Jeroen Pater, à 2014-11-19 08:25:38, édité à 2014-11-19 08:32:54, a dit:
I just got the news today from my friend Krzysztof Borkowski from Poland that Chrobry oak has set on fire:


I hope it will survive, but the pictures look very bad.

It is very sad news. The Chrobry oak is one of the most impressive oak trees in Europe. Why are people doing this!?



Jeroen Philippona, à 2014-11-19 23:51:47, édité à 2014-11-19 23:52:57, a dit:
Indeed very sad and incredible that people do this. This is indeed one of the most impressive oaks I have ever visited.

Jeroen Philippona

Stephen Verge, à 2014-11-20 08:13:10, a dit:
I'm afraid I'm in despair with the human race!

The heat involved is likely to have cooked the sapwood and cambium layer, I am not hopeful it will survive. The Sherwood Oak in Nottinghamshire was also set on fire in the past, but it has survived.

Jeroen Philippona, à 2014-11-20 20:15:47, édité à 2014-11-20 21:58:34, a dit:
Jeroen Pater and I visited this oak at a day in November 1999. At the same day we also visited the oak Napoleon in Zabor, somewhat more to the north-east, wich had a girth of even 10.45 m and was the biggest circumferenced oak of Poland at that time. It was also hollow and a few years later this oak also was set on fire. It survived, but the burning was repeated after a few years and the oak died.

The biggest girthed tree of the Netherlands, a hollow Sweet Chestnut (see Kastanjedal ) also was set on fire several times, the last time in 2005 and till now has survived.

So I hope Chrobry will stay alive as well.


Rainer Lippert, à 2014-11-20 21:12:06, a dit:

die Eiche in Hornoldendorf (Außenmauer des Ritterguts) wurde vor zwei Jahren auch in Brand gesetzt. Letztes Jahr hat es noch so ausgesehen, als ob sie es wohl nicht überlebt. In diesem Jahr, als ich dort war, hat sich wieder recht viel grün gezeigt. Und zwar an Ästen, die noch 2013 kahl waren. Sie scheint sich also zu erholen. Vielleicht schafft es ja diese Eiche hier auch so wie die in Hornoldendorf. Hoffen wir also mal.

Viele Grüße,


KoutaR, à 2014-11-20 22:57:55, a dit:
This may be a good reason not to publish record tree locations (though trees like the oak in question cannot be kept secret).

Tim, à 2014-11-20 19:22:32, a dit:
Hallo Marc,

Ik krijg zin om op reis te gaan als ik dit zie :)



ReforestamosMexico1, à 2014-11-20 16:34:03, a dit:

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Eik in Ouffet groet David
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David van Iersel, à 2014-11-19 20:22:50, a dit:

Han van Meegeren, à 2014-11-19 21:40:22, a dit:

Ik heb het aangepast.

Gr van Han

Wim Brinkerink, à 2014-11-19 16:41:16, a dit:
Die Eucalyptussen zijn prachtig in Spanje. Jammer dat er fotografisch weinig eer valt te behalen met die vracht aan auto's er omheen.

turtle63, à 2014-11-18 08:40:26, a dit:
This is from a Postcard of my G.Grandmothers of this tree.

I am guessing it is from early 1905-1911 as this seems to be the time frame for these Postcards.

Looks pretty impressive even then.

I am pleased to see it is still existing after a Google search.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, à 2014-11-18 19:57:54, a dit:
Thanks for adding this old picture.

I've added a measurement (from Elwes and Henry's book) from this same period and a few other historic measurements from the Tree Register, which show the tree growing away steadily. The growth-rate rather undermines the story that this tree dates right back to Bishop Gunning in the later 17th century, though it is possible that a heat-loving species would actually be adding girth faster today than in the 'little Ice Age'. (The two most recent girth measurements are misleading - I'm sure it's not started to grow that fast!)

turtle63, à 2014-11-18 23:24:52, a dit:
Thank you for that, I had a look and it looks like it's slowed down growing has it. It has lost some off the top too?

Looking at my Postcard it has lost some big branches off it as well.

I guess it has done well to survive this long, wonder how old it will get.

Stephen Verge, à 2014-11-13 08:02:59, a dit:
Hello Owen

Wow! This one escaped me on MT. I have been here several times and yes quite remarkable that trees of this size can be as big here as in Scotland or Wales, with only 900mm of rain! This tree may surpass the Douglas in Broadwood, Dunster?

Obviously the deeply weathered sandy brown earth soil type derived from the Lower Greensand has been a factor. A pity Southern England was not covered in Greensand as opposed to horrible chalk. There is something magical about this soil which I am interested in finding out about. Here in Oxon, Nuneham Courtenay also on Greensand grows big conifers with only 600mm of rain.

Big Western Hemlock too at Polecat.

I noticed the Sequoia had probably been hit by lightning above the cottage, presume this is the one Alan measured as 170' in his book? An overestimate perhaps?

Kind regards


TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, à 2014-11-15 18:12:28, a dit:
Greensand is indeed the best soil in south-east England for tree-growth, and so many good tree sites are concentrated on it despite the tiny proportion of the country which it covers. I think the secret is that the grains are coarse enough to allow easy root-penetration but fine enough to be water-retentive. Soils washed down the from the Old Red Sandstone (Welsh Marches etc) and from ancient Scottish sandstone have just the same qualities. So, presumably, do loess soils in the Netherlands where trees can also grow very tall (without the benefits of much side-shelter from high hills as we have in England). Chalk is also much better than heavy clay, which covers so much of lowland England.

I have no idea how tall the Polecat Copse trees will grow. They are in a superbly sheltered spot and the two tallest have continued to produce long leaders through the 14 years I've known them, though they've lost their leaders once or twice and some others in the same line now have rough, bushy tops (but are still growing). Given the right soil, and shelter from dehydrating winds, Douglas don't seem to be troubled by drought or high summer temperatures. I don't know the local conditions for the 65m tree in the Massif Central of France but I would assume that summers there are hotter and drier than in Surrey.

That said, I suspect drought-stress rather than lightning for the loss of the top of the Giant Sequoia opposite Angle Cottage. Lightning would have been more likely to strike the higher tree-tops of the bank to the west. In 1995 we had a very dry summer near my home in Hastings and many of the taller Giant Sequoias died back a few metres (and have now recovered but rounded off).

Stephen Verge, à 2014-11-16 09:46:03, a dit:
Hello Owen

Thanks. Yes I think the secret with Lower Greensand is the ability for trees to extract soil water much more easily due to the pores and matrix of the soil, coupled with a moderately acid ph and reasonable fertility. On a clay soil water holding capacity is obviously greater, but trees cannot extract it as well as on say Greensand due to the pores and soil matrix unfavorable for tree root growth and penetration. Subsequent capillary action of soil water through the soil is much better on Greensand. As it is a soft sandstone is must have weathered deeply as well. It also probably has no root depth restriction caused by an iron pan, which is frequent on acid sandy soils.

Ulmus and Quercus robur as an opposite example seems to love surface water gleys on clay vales.

It appears to me that Giant Sequoia much prefers sandy soils and the Bagshot Sand near my locality at Crowthorne and also at the Valley Gardens Near Windsor as you know grow big trees, despite only 600mm of rain, some 300mm less than at Polecat. Also Giant Sequoia and Douglas are adapted to grow on sandy well drained soils in their native habitat so it is no surprise.

The tree at Angle Cottage lost many metres due to crown dieback which I think is most likely lightning. Yes I have also seen Giant Sequoia die back due to drought, but I know that when lightning strikes Sequoias it often rarely leaves a scar on the trunk, possibly due to the insulation properties of the bark, however it sometimes does and I have seen trees blown apart in the most extreme examples. I know that Beech rarely leaves a scar and yet oak is badly affected. A difficult question and needs more research.

I know that the Massif Central is the wettest place in France with up to 2000mm, but one has to remember that with higher temperatures the evapotranspiration and summer soil moisture defict would be greater than at Polecat, so perhaps only the available rainfall/soil water there will be only slightly greater?

Windspeed is much less in Surrey than in Somerset, so perhaps they will grow to 60m+ at Polecat.



Conifers, à 2014-11-16 10:00:51, a dit:
"Giant Sequoia ... and I have seen trees blown apart in the most extreme examples"

Seehttp://www.pinetum.org/lightning.htm for an example!

Stephen Verge, à 2014-11-16 10:08:21, a dit:
Thanks Conifers

BANG!!! Wow that is an example, I have seen oak trees like this also.

RedRob, à 2014-11-17 18:22:13, édité à 2014-11-17 18:23:52, a dit:
Only visited this location once, 2011 and wish that I had had the laser then. Thank you for registering this Owen, it needed to be on here.


Is the Sequoiadendron near the cottage, here called 'King Kong' still likely to be 51 metres which you measured, assessed it as a few years ago or will it have added some height? I remember looking at this tree from angles and it would have been difficult to see the top and bottom to measure it. The Coast Redwood in the photo above is one at the top of the hill near the old big house but there is a taller one I am sure, immediately on the hillside above the 51 metre 'King Kong' Seqy. I took photos on an old mobile phone and have not been able to get the photos off it as don't have Bluetooth on my laptop. They would be 1.5MP photos so may not be that great. Anyway, this Coast Redwood looked pretty tall, slim and surely 40 metres plus. There is/was also a conifer plantation just the west of the 59 metre Douglas Fir grove, if I remember Larch and Spruce, Sitka snd Norway, which looked pretty tall.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, à 2014-11-18 19:48:11, a dit:
Near Angle Cottage at Polecat Copse, the Sequoiadendron that died back around 2005 was the taller but slenderer of a pair. I had measured it at 48m in 2000 but may have underestimated - Alan's 170' c.1990 was presumably a bit too high. The fatter tree beside it (the one in 'Redwood World' has preserved its tip and had grown to 51m by 2011, but I can't guarantee how accurate this was either. I shall return with the laser in due course.

RedRob, à 2014-11-12 16:49:27, a dit:
This is a shame, B&I and European champion now ex champion. Did you put a message in Discussion about this Owen, I must have missed it if you did? Perhaps the top fell much more recently and the fallen wood was taken as firewood? A relative lived in Surrey and they had an open fire and used to go out regularly collecting firewood in the local woods, often taking a saw. With the high price of energy and fuel more and more people have been doing this.

RedRob, à 2014-11-12 16:52:29, a dit:
Busbridge Lakes

This one takes over as the tallest, did you take any photos of it Owen?

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, à 2014-11-15 18:14:07, a dit:
No, I visited Busbridge Lakes in pre-laser, pre-camera days and used a hypsometer made of flint. I must return. I'm moderately confident it is indeed 38 - 39m, if still intact.

RedRob, à 2014-11-17 18:33:44, a dit:
Hello Owen, looking forward to seeing the tree if it is still there and 38/39 metres. What is the next tallest after that, 36 metres I saw when checking on the Register. The trees in the location at Southwell, Nottinghamshire reported by Richard Goodrich were not 37 metres, 31 metres was the tallest in that location that I recorded with the laser and I could visibly see that it was the tallest. I didn't spot the reported 31 metre Hornbeams at the roadside but they will not be 31 metres if they are as the 31 metre Chestnut stood up higher than the other trees in the group. They could be perhaps 27 or 28 metres if they are there.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, à 2014-11-18 19:43:27, a dit:
Yes, two 36m trees at Boughton House (Northants) this summer, one of which I added to this site. We can discout the old Humberside records.

Conifers in Devon
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RedRob, à 2014-11-17 18:27:55, a dit:

Owen, 'Warhorse' was shown on BBC1 last night and in the opening sequences on the moors of Dartmoor, in the distance was a reservoir with some what looked like very tall dark conifer outlines in several places on the banks. I have checked and it was filmed at Burrator Reservoir. Have any tall trees been recorded here? The trees in the Geograph link look like Douglas Fir perhaps?

Stephen Verge, à 2014-11-18 08:01:29, a dit:
Hello Rob

I know that many larch here were infected with Phytophora ramrorum and had to be felled for bio security measures. Douglas though is fairly resistant unless under very heavy pressure from spores.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, à 2014-11-18 19:42:16, a dit:
I did walk through the woods around the Burrator Reservoir in 2006. There was a Sitka Spruce plantation with trees reaching 40m. I didn't see any notable Douglas Firs. This is on the south-westerly, exposed side of Dartmoor, so I wouldn't expect anything to grow really tall - Sitka is probably the toughest in that situation.

Rainer Lippert, à 2014-11-15 20:58:44, a dit:

ist das nicht eher "Thuja plicata"?

Viele Grüße,


Conifers, à 2014-11-15 21:39:50, a dit:
Yes, Thuja plicata.
Rainer Lippert, à 2014-11-16 06:52:37, a dit:
Hallo Conifers,

danke für die Bestätigung. Die Thuja daneben wird dann wohl auch "Thuja plicata" sein?

Viele Grüße,


Conifers, à 2014-11-16 13:54:54, a dit:
Hallo Rainer,

Probably yes, T. occidentalis is almost never a large tree! Could you add a link to the tree you refer to, please ;-)

Rainer Lippert, à 2014-11-16 15:56:04, a dit:
Hallo Conifers,

hier ist der andere Baum: thuya géant de Californie (Thuja plicata) '19892'

Viele Grüße,


Conifers, à 2014-11-16 16:38:59, a dit:
Danke! Yes, Thuja plicata is correct.
Rainer Lippert, à 2014-11-16 16:45:02, a dit:
Danke auch für die Bestätigung. Dann handelt es sich bei beiden Bäumen um Thuja plicata. Und mal wieder ein falsch angebrachtes Schild ;-)

Viele Grüße,


RedRob, à 2014-11-17 18:11:33, a dit:
Some very impressive trees at this location Rainer, one to visit for sure if anyone is ever this way.
Rainer Lippert, à 2014-11-17 18:30:23, a dit:
Hallo RedRob,

ja, da stehen einige interessante Bäume. Aktuell stehen dort von 6 Baumarten der jeweils höchste von Deutschland.

Viele Grüße,


RedRob, à 2014-11-17 18:08:21, édité à 2014-11-17 18:09:59, a dit:
Hello Jeroen, is this the Netherland's tallest tree now and likely to remain so or are there some possible challengers? From the distance photo the Douglas looks as if it has a really wide spread on the crown.

Leo Goudzwaard, à 2014-11-13 11:35:45, a dit:
wow, this oak tree has been grafted twice!, and I have never seen this before.

Has anyone noticed this before on large trees?

The old Quercus coccinea trees in the Netherlands are usually grafted once and quite high on the stam, on Q. rubra or Q. palustris.

Double grafting has been common practice with fruit trees as apple, pear and Cydonia.

In Dutch the method is called "tussenstam"-method.

Great finding and good picture, Nardo!

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, à 2014-11-15 18:17:48, a dit:
I've only seen double-grafting of Pyrus salicifolia 'Pendula' and on what in Britain were sold as 'Sheraton' cherries. (Roots Prunus avium, trunk P. serrula, crown P. serrulata cv. They don't live long.) In SE England many older Quercus coccinea are also grafted on Q. rubra and I had assumed they were 'Splendens', a clone distributed by the Knap Hill Nursery in Surrey. They have bigger axillary tufts under the leaf vein-joints, almost like Q. palustris. I don't know whether the Knap Hill Nursery also distributed to the near Continent or if there was a similar clone sold there as grafts.

Conifers, à 2014-11-16 13:57:46, a dit:
I'm not sure it is double-grafted, it may just be a coincidence with the bark pattern on the burrs. The adjacent chêne écarlate (Quercus coccinea) '19854' is clearly not double-grafted.

Conifers, à 2014-11-16 16:44:39, a dit:
I just looked at the tree on Google Street View, which shows it well from the other side. Only one graft line!

Jeroen Philippona, à 2014-11-16 09:34:09, a dit:
Hallo OKAnnette,

Leuk dat je een foto en gegevens van de Major Oak op deze website zet! Deze boom staat echter al enige jaren op een andere locatie op de website, nl hier: http://www.monumentaltrees.com/nl/gbr/engeland/nottinghamshire/968_sherwoodforest/ .

Het zou het beste zijn om je foto's en evt. andere gegevens op die pagina toe te voegen en de nieuwe pagina te verwijderen.

De omschrijving van een locatie is in Engeland vaak wat lastig, vandaar waarschijnlijk dat je de oudere pagina van de eik niet had gezien.

Vriendelijke groeten,

Jeroen Philippona

Rainer Lippert, à 2014-11-16 09:33:58, a dit:

ein toller Baum.

Handelt es sich hier um die gleiche Eiche: http://www.monumentaltrees.com/de/gbr/england/northamptonshire/10111_sherwoodforest/19894/

Viele Grüße,


OKAnnette, à 2014-11-15 23:38:06, a dit:
Foto niet van mij maar van Phil Lockwood.

Zie artikelhttp://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-30052751


Indrukwekkend mooi. Daar wordt je stil van.....


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