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Wim Brinkerink, en 2015-03-31 20:32:45, ha dicho:
Hi all,

I recently saw that Tim has added a survey on how we have rated trees. I see that I have rated quite extreme. I have rated a lot of 0,25 scores. I appreciate to inform you about the backgrounds of this extremity. i have often asked the contributors to confirm to the rating system that is intended. The rating is intended to rate the best PICTURE of a specific tree. To my depreciation too much people rate the statistics of a tree. They rate the fact that a tree is the biggest, tallest or oldest. That is not the purpose of the rating as Tim has repeatedly stated. Furthermore i have noticed that some people are extremely underrating quite beautiful trees, like red beeches or chopped limes. I have a habit of resisting and counterveiling these shortsighted people. So I underrate the trees that have no visual or Photographic value to try and restore the balance. Of course I realize I am fighting windmills, but I cannot withstand it. I am partly a Don Quichote who is mostly interested in the common intrest. And I am quite confident that I am able to see what is in our common intrest. Nevertheless, my urge to try to make the world better is declining. More and more I am backing off and let things happen the way they do. The older the wiser (or sadder? or cynical? )

Greetings to you all and no hard feelings to the short-sighted.

I wish you a very happy time with this database, nature, your love for trees and your conscience.


Jeroen Philippona, en 2015-04-17 10:47:48, ha dicho:
Hi Wim,

You were fighting perhaps only a few other persons at this website, as you can see when looking to the ratings. From the persons I looked for the ratings they gave to photograps, you and one other person were outnumbering all other participants by far. So it seems you were fighting only this person, who like you gave a lot of extreme ratings.

So don't think you were fighting me and some other participants who are interested in measurements of trees. The system wich Tim has created gives the possibility to view the trees in order of girth, height (and age if estimated or known), this is not interrupted by the rating of the photos.

That some contributors have rated photos of tall (and often forest grown) trees higher than others is strange. From my own photos the heighest rated are often photos of forest grown trees, espesially in primeval / old growth forests I visited in former Yougoslavia and Poland. It seems one or more contributors prefer such primeval forests over trees in an urban situation, but this has nothing to do with the quality of the photos.

I hope you can leave this now, because people who prefer picturesque open grown trees or good photos will easily find these when looking at MT.

Regards, Jeroen

Rainer Lippert, en 2015-04-17 11:59:19, ha dicho:

wo kann man denn diesen Bericht sehen?

Viele Grüße,


Wim Brinkerink, en 2015-04-18 08:28:32, ha dicho:
Yes, I already had decided to leave it. It was a short hick up and need to explain my overdone rating.

And to Rainer. If you go to a person and see his contributions you see a graph in which the voting is registered.

I will not react on this issue anymore and won't start or mix in any discussion on rating again.


David van Iersel, en 2015-04-14 07:16:35, ha dicho:
Deze haagbeuk staat langs een provinciale weg tussen de dorpskernen Walik en Steensel. De bewoner vertelde dat hij oorspronkelijk deel heeft uitgemaakt van een haag.

De stam is zeer fraai getordeerd, grotendeels hol en vol 'doorkijkjes'.

Een prachtige markante boom!

Conifers, en 2015-03-14 22:22:17, ha dicho:
That's sad. Any cones at the top that you could collect?
wwhiteside97, en 2015-03-14 22:30:56, ha dicho:
Hi, yes there are plenty, I'm going to collect some tomorrow.
Conifers, en 2015-03-14 22:47:24, ha dicho:
Probably mostly empty of seed now, unfortunately. I'd be interested to know the length of the longest you can find (and might like it sent to me for my study collection, please!).
wwhiteside97, en 2015-03-14 22:50:41, ha dicho:
Thankfully seen a few that still had some seed in them. I'll have a good look round for the largest cones for you.
Conifers, en 2015-03-14 23:10:12, ha dicho:
Many thanks!
WiPe, en 2015-04-05 12:36:43, modificado en 2015-04-05 14:37:53, ha dicho:
If there is enough space to keep this tree lying on the ground, it is still possible to keep it growing. I would consider to keep it. There is enough experience at the ancient tree forum to help you to deal with the technical aspects of keeping this tree.

wwhiteside97, en 2015-04-05 20:32:34, ha dicho:
Doubtful... Would be great if we could but many of the main roots are broken and in one case the breaking of one of the roots has partly severed the bottom of the trunk.
Martin Tijdgat, en 2015-04-11 11:10:15, ha dicho:

As we all know trees do surprise us. Even fallen trees do live for decades in some occasions. There is a fallen Catalpa at Soestdijk palace gardens spared and still living! In Wertheim parks, Amsterdam there are a group of elms horizontally hanging over water!

This tree formes no danger to it's surroundings or the visitors of this park. Why not wait and see what happens?

Greetings, Martin

wwhiteside97, en 2015-04-11 22:08:47, ha dicho:
Hello Martin, I don't think the Forest Service are going to do anything just yet anyway. However I think for now they are just going to cut up the large branches which are broken.

Conifers, en 2013-10-06 21:04:19, ha dicho:
Nothofagus antarctica
Han van Meegeren, en 2013-10-06 21:18:32, ha dicho:
Thanks conifers. You're right!
Martin Tijdgat, en 2015-04-11 10:54:35, ha dicho:

Kan jij aangeven hoe oud de bomen in dit park zijn, of wanneer dit Zomerpark is aangelegd. Ik ben nl. op zoek naar een Nothofagus die in het Register van de Bomenstichting kan worden opgenomen.

Groet, Martin

Veldiep in Gartrop, Hünxe
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Leo Goudzwaard, en 2014-11-04 09:39:14, ha dicho:
hello Karlheinz, this great tree is an Ulmus laevis, cheers, Leo

Karlheinz, en 2014-11-04 18:52:35, ha dicho:
Hi Leo, you could be right, the trunk with the many water veins looks like Ulmus laevis. But the leaves are different. I could compare directly with those of the 200 meters away Ulmus laevis '19794'. The leaves are thicker and solid, smoother the upper side, and the lower leaf surface shows the typical pattern of profiled Ulmus minor (it looks like But surely with the identification of the species I'm not. It would be good if you or someone else could check the tree on site!



Karlheinz, en 2014-11-06 20:55:01, ha dicho:

please check out my additional photos of the leaves. I took a few home with me. The lower leaf surface shows a profiled or cracked pattern and I see silky hair tufts in the vein angles, focusing on the central vein. This is something I've only seen at Ulmus minor, is this also possible with Ulmus laevis?


Karlheinz, en 2014-11-07 02:04:08, ha dicho:
refer to: "Bestimmungstabelle für Ulmen"

Leo Goudzwaard, en 2014-11-07 09:24:08, modificado en 2014-11-07 09:26:59, ha dicho:
hello Karlheinz,

your added leaf pictures show U. minor, but the leaves at your tree pictures are typical U. laevis.

I have added a photo showing an enlarged part of one of your tree pictures combined with a part of your collected-leaves pictures.

These cannot be from the same tree, because at the left side there are U. leaves trees and on the right side U. minor leaves.

U. laevis has much wider leaves with long curved teeth at the edges

U. minor has narrower leaves with short teeth

If this was a test, I hope I have passed, cheers, Leo

Karlheinz, en 2014-11-07 10:18:43, ha dicho:
I want to go there again and photograph leaves tomorrow. Is there still something else I should particularly look out for?

KoutaR, en 2014-11-07 11:17:27, ha dicho:
Most importantly, the leaves from fast growing sprouts or coppice shoots are unusable for identification - they readily result in missidentification. The best leaves are the subdistal ones (next below from the leaves at the shoot tip) from the short shoots (Kurztriebe) in the crown, including the lowest branches of the crown. Never leaves from the shoots at the tree base.

Leo Goudzwaard, en 2014-11-07 15:18:33, ha dicho:
you are right Kouta, but even from leaves from the treebase or epicormic shoots, I will be able to distinguish U. laevis (which is my favorite tree) from other U. species.

KoutaR, en 2014-11-07 15:29:01, ha dicho:
Ok. I believe that YOU can do it.

Karlheinz, en 2014-11-10 15:55:44, ha dicho:

einen Scherz habe ich mir nicht erlaubt und Verwechslungen oder falsche Zuordnung der Blatt-Fotos schließe ich aus. Auch ohne die Fotos erinnere ich mich daran, dass ich unter dem Baum neben den normalen Blättern zahlreiche dieser Feldulmen-ähnlichen Blätter gefunden habe. Sie hatten Nervengabelungen auch in der oberen Blatthälfte. Ich kannte dieses Unterscheidungsmerkmal und habe vor Ort sehr bewußt darauf geachtet.

Gestern war ich wieder in Gartrop, ich hatte aber leider keinen Zutritt zum Schlosspark. Über die Sprechanlage zur Hotelrezeption erhielt ich immer nur den Hinweis auf "Privatbesitz", zu weiteren Auskünften war man nicht bereit.

Ich kenne eine weitere Ulme, die als Flatterulme bekannt ist und wo ich zu Beginn der Laubfallzeit vor etwa einer Woche auch solche Feldulmen-ähnlichen Blätter fand: olmo blanco europeo (Ulmus laevis) '19851' . Auch dort war ich gestern und habe Fotos gemacht. Die obere Kronenhälfte ist inzwischen völlig blattleer und unten rieselten die Blätter. Zu meinem Erstaunen konnte ich im dichten Laub unter dem Baum keine Blätter mit Nerven-Gabelungen in der oberen Blatthälfte mehr entdecken, nur noch normale Flatterulmenblätter.

Beide Bäume weisen ein übereinstimmendes Merkmal auf:

Durch baumpflegerische Eingriffe in der Vergangenheit wurde die Krone eingekürzt und an den Schnittstellen haben sich Büschel von Neuaustrieben entwickelt, welche nun die Kronenperipherie prägen.

Ich schliesse daraus:

Diese für Flatterulmen untypischen Blätter bilden sich an den Neuaustrieben oben in der Krone. Zu Beginn der Laubfallzeit sind das die ersten Blätter, die der Baum abwirft und die man dann unten auflesen kann. Später, wenn die große Masse der Blätter fällt, sieht man nur noch normal geformte Blätter.

Nach meiner Einschätzung ist das eine Flatterulme, ich habe das entsprechend geändert.

Was haltet ihr von dieser Theorie?



- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

here is my English translation:


a joke I'm not allowed and confusion or incorrect assignment of the leaf photos I exclude. Even without the photos I remember that I found under the tree in addition to normal leaves many of these field elm-like leaves. They had nerve forks in the upper half. I knew this distinctive feature and on site I have paid attention very consciously to it.

Yesterday I was back in Gartrop, but I had no access to the park. Over the intercom to the hotel reception I always received the reference to "private property", for other information they were not willing.

I know another elm, which is known as white elm and where I also found such field elm-like leaves at the beginning of leaf fall time, about a week ago: <olmo blanco europeo (Ulmus laevis) '19851' . Even there I was yesterday and took pictures. The upper half of the crown is now completely empty from leaves and also below the leaves trickled strongly. To my amazement, in the dense foliage on the ground under the tree I could no longer find leaves with nerve forks in the upper half, only normal elm leaves.

Both trees have a matching feature:

By arboriculture interventions in the past, the crowns of both trees was shortened and the stumps have developed tufts of new sproutings, which now shape the crown periphery.

I conclude:

This for Ulmus laevis untypical leaves are formed at the sproutings in top of the shortened crown. At the beginning of leaf fall time these are the first leaves that the tree throws off and you can pick up from the ground. Later, when the large mass of leaves fall, you will find only normal shaped leaves.

In my estimation, this is a white elm, I have changed accordingly.

What do you think about this theory?



Karlheinz, en 2015-04-11 08:12:31, ha dicho:

Recent photos of the flowers show: Ulmus laevis. I have learned from it: Also the leaves of European white elm can be very variable.

best regards, Karlheinz

Séquoia géant à rue du Bailly à Lincent
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xandru, en 2015-04-10 16:33:38, ha dicho:
La cime de cet arbre est bien visible de l’autoroute.

Lien :,5.030252&ll=50.714161,5.029002&spn=0.001423,0.004748&num=1&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=50.714218,5.028917&panoid=pv4QK5QoGqmj88OsfAWMeQ&cbp=12,76.36,,1,-6.69

xandru, en 2015-04-10 15:47:34, ha dicho:
Il s’agit de plusieurs très jeunes séquoias géants. Leur hauteur est de dix mètres environ. À côté, il y un séquoia à feuilles d’if de la même hauteur. Tous ces arbres ne me semblent pas être en bon état, surtout le sempervirens est un peu desséché.

Lien :

gille, en 2015-04-09 21:08:11, ha dicho:
Der Jahrestrieb einfach nochma 30cm/Jahr minimum draufgepackt hammer

stellt euch die teile mal in 500 Jahren vor OMG

bodyman777, en 2015-04-07 21:55:57, ha dicho:
the four seasons of the great Oak of Collingswood

StefKeulen, en 2015-04-05 12:27:13, ha dicho:
Het trieste restant van de tot voor kort zo mooie boom!
Conifers, en 2015-04-05 23:05:57, ha dicho:
Classic example of a forked stem splitting at the fork - if they'd pruned it to a single stem 30 or 40 years ago, this wouldn't have happened.

Twan van Bijsterveldt 2, en 2015-04-02 16:34:35, ha dicho:
Deze Beuk is op 31 maart 2015 omgewaaid. De boom was aangetast door de Korsthoutskoolzwam Kretzschmaria deusta.
WiPe, en 2015-04-05 12:28:14, ha dicho:
Kretzschmaria deustta is niet direct een wortelaantaster, voor zover mij bekend. Zou het kunnen dat de boom ook aangetast was door Meripulus giganteus, reuzenzwam?
Twan van Bijsterveldt 2, en 2015-04-05 13:54:44, ha dicho:
Hallo WiPe.

Het zou zo maar kunnen dat er de reuzenzwam er ook in zit maar die ben ik niet tegen gekomen. Ik zag duidelijk de anamorfen en de demarcatiezones van de kosthoutskoolzwam. Ook wil ik nog even zeggen dat 90% van de wortels nog in de grond zitten. Dat deze boom alleen maar in de stam is afgebroken wat niet helemaal te zien is op de foto.

WiPe, en 2015-04-05 14:03:14, modificado en 2015-04-05 14:05:26, ha dicho:
Reuzenzwam tast de wortels en de stamvoet aan. Dat de boom afbreekt vlak boven de wortels sluit niet uit dat er reuzenzwam in de boom zit. Wat ik van de standplaats kan zien, geeft og meer het vermoeden dat er reuzenzwam in het spel is.

Monzon, en 2015-04-03 09:03:50, ha dicho:
The "official" estimated age is 156 years (1859), not 180.
Tim B, en 2015-04-03 13:42:10, ha dicho:
Hi Monzon, feel free to add this age estimation to the page.

Kind regards,


Monzon, en 2015-04-03 14:44:34, ha dicho:
Hi, Tim, I can't do it!

Scholem Alejchem, en 2015-03-29 18:05:41, ha dicho:
This is Kaiserwasser, not Kasierwasser!

Conifers, en 2015-03-29 22:41:11, ha dicho:

Tim B, en 2015-04-03 07:38:25, ha dicho:

cmwouw, en 2015-04-02 14:44:36, ha dicho:

Ik heb een boek geschreven genaamd Handboek Boomteelt, het vermeerderen van houtige gewassen. Voor dit boek ben ik op zoek naar foto's om te gebruiken in dit boek.

Zou ik de toestemming mogen hebben om één van jullie foto's te gebruiken in mijn boek? Ik kan geen foto uploaden, heeft u een mailadres voor me?

Met vriendelijke groet,

C van de Wouw

Tim B, en 2015-04-03 07:38:06, ha dicho:

bij elke foto staat de naam van de fotograaf.

Het is deze die u moet contacteren om toestemming te vragen (indien de licentie van de foto - die daar ook vermeld staat - u dit niet al geeft).



Scholem Alejchem, en 2013-11-26 13:02:30, ha dicho:
Das sind sicher die größten Silberpappeln in Österreich und damit wahrscheinlich auch die Ältesten!
simi, en 2013-11-26 13:33:58, ha dicho:
Hallo! Es gibt in diesem Augebiet noch mehrere starke Pappeln, alle mit einem Umfang zwischen 5 und 7m. Ich bin noch icht dazugekommen, alle Bäume zu messen, da einige davon sehr verwachsen sind und wahrschenlich erst im Winter zugänglich werden. Sobald ich Neuigkeiten habe, stelle ich wieder Bilder und Daten rein. BTW: auf dem Gelände der heutigen Kläranlage Asten wurde vor ca. 25 Jahren eine Pappel gefällt, der Stamm hatte in Bodennähe ca. 2,5 x 2 Meter. Ich hab damals ca. 180 Jahrringe gezählt.
simi, en 2015-04-01 06:11:01, modificado en 2015-04-01 06:13:05, ha dicho:
Ich bin gespannt, wie es den Bäumen beim gestrigen Sturm gegangen ist. In der Nähe des Weikerlsees hat es eine Pappel mit 6m Umfang im Winter umgehauen, bei uns in der Nähe leigen viele Äste herum.


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