It looks like there is one branch still alive of the Wappeneiche but in the list it is given as a dead tree. Could you explain how it is?
It would be nice if you gave some more information about the trees wich you upload at MT. That would make your contributions still more valuable compared to only measurements and photographs.
der Baum lebt noch, wie du richtig erkannt hast. Die Wappeneiche befindet sich zwar in einen sehr schlechten Zustand, der eine Ast ist aber noch grün. Bei meinem letzten Besuch 2008 war da noch mehr grün. Später hatte ich dann im Internet gelesen, dass die Eiche inzwischen abgestorben sei. Und wie ich den Baum dann in MT eingetragen habe, habe ich ihn entsprechend markiert. Ich war deswegen vor ein paar Woche auch überrascht, wie ich den grünen Ast gesehen habe. Habe es aber versäumt, hier entsprechend abzuändern, was ich jetzt nachgeholt habe. Also Danke für den Hinweis.
Mir fehlt leider halt immer etwas die Zeit, um da noch Beiträge dazu zu schreiben. Ich nehme mir das immer wieder vor, aber leider wird es dann nichts. Wie jetzt aktuell habe ich wohl noch so um die 50 Bäume, die ich in MT eintragen möchte, die ich die letzten Wochen aufgesucht habe. Und das eintragen und bebildern hat bei mir zuerst Priorität. Aber bis ich die 50 Bäume eingetragen habe, sind schon wieder neue dazugekommen. Es ist einfach ein Teufelskreis ;-)
Nice to meet you! Sorry maar mijn nederlands is niet altijd 100% OK.
Ik was vandaag in Haut-le-Wastia naast de mooie lindeboom dat je hier geregistreerd hebt.
In feite, na enkele checks gaat het hier over een Tilia X europea en dus geen cordata.
We zouden dus het moeten van soort verhuizen. Ik ben niet echt specialiest maar ik baseer me op verschillende inventaarissen die dit boom beschrijven. Groetjes. Marc
Yes, it is the same tree. Easiest solution here would be to delete Wim's photo from '13346', upload it for '15304' and then delete the tree '13346'. I could do this, but then I think the photo would appear with a hyperlink to me instead?
The usual way of dealing with this kind of issues is that the older upload will be respected and that the newer tree will be adjusted to and merged with the older upload. I prefer that option.
Agree with Wim, the older, first registering should be used.
Thanks for these records! I uploaded a couple of trees from the Gosford Castle pinetum last year when I was adding the UK and Ireland record-holders to Monumental Trees, but, as you've probably gathered, I don't know this site personally. (The records we have at the Tree Register include Irish National Grid grid-references but I don't have the means to convert them into latitude/longitude.) So any corrections or updates will be most welcome!
Aubrey Fennell, who recorde the trees at Gosford in 2000 and in 2010, is a member of this site, but hasn't had time to add his own records in person. But he may pick up this message.
Owen Johnson (The Tree Register)
Only two Common Laburnums registered! I wish I had realised this as have seen quite a few good sized Laburnums, probably around 10 metres, but didn't record them as have been meaning to visit Wakefield Castle to measure and confirm the B&I champion height there, 12 metres if I remember correctly? They are lovely trees when in flower. Will have to now try and remember where I have noticed some of the Laburnums.
Hi Rob - you'd need to check identities carefully. 'Common' Laburnum is actually far from common in cultivation now, and rarely exceeds 6 metres or so tall. Larger ones are almost all Alpine Laburnum L. alpinum, or (most frequently of all now) the hybrid between the two, Voss's Laburnum L. × watereri 'Vossii'. Distinguishing them is fairly tricky; I suspect the ones in these photos here are Voss's, but can't confirm it without close-up pics.
Intriguing that you stumbled upon this tree. Don't know how you see it, but in the 60's and 70's the babyboomers in Holland, judged this species as a thoroughly "burgerlijk" plant/tree. A lot of people (probably outside the world of agriculturalists, naturalist and dendrologists) defied this trees.
I used to be one of them. By now, I am a bit independent and judge everything without prejudice. And true, Laburnums can be very nice. That's what a lot of people in Asia think.
Hello Wim, it is a very nice Laburnum, these trees always bring a smile, lift the mood because they are so bright even on a dull day when in flower.
Hello Conifers, probably too late now as the leaves will have gone but any that I measure I will get an ident for from the expert eyes on here.
Rob, you probably know the very big thriving Laburnum in the Valley Gardens in Harrogate (near the north edge of the main park). This is L. alpinum. (There is one much bigger but collapsing one in Ireland, which I've not seen.) Generally L. alpinum grows better the further north you go and I've recorded 14m trees in Scotland. There should be a 15m one somewhere. (12m tree in the park at Wakefield was anagyroides and exceptional in its way, though it's moot whether we should really award champions for height for trees that grow no taller than this.)
Hello Owen, not seen the Laburnum that you mention, I will have to try and find it which will probably be easier with foliage on.
I've just uploaded the Laburnum, as we've discussed it. It has a monumental quality to it - for a Laburnum.
I wonder if these are hybrids (Larix x marschlinsii) again? They would be much the tallest so far. It would depend whether they are Victorian plantings from the original landscaping of the reservoir, like the tallest Douglas Firs and, presumably, the 40m larch which is among them, or Forestry Commission plantings from 1920 onwards. I wouldn't like to say from their outlines against the sky here. The tall Grand Firs in this view are post-1920, I would guess? Did you take more pictures of the larches?
abeto grande (Abies grandis) '19170'
1st and 3rd photos here, some of Larches visible next to Grand Firs and trunks visible behind Grand Fir trunks in photo 3. You probably know but if you click on the photos you can magnify them.
árbol de una especie no determinada (?) '19190'
Photo 1 at top, a good view of the plantation, probably eventually likely to be felled?
I have just had a look on Google Maps and you can get a pretty good view up to them from the road. This also illustrates the difficulty of measuring the interior trees, dense vegetation. I measured one of the clear view trees at the bottom of the plantation roadside.
alerce europeo (Larix decidua) '19225'
Hello again Owen, I have just added another photo for this tree. I toook them as just Larix Decidua and didn't take any close up photos. The tree I measured is on the left of the photo with the car in the lay-by, you can see the tip. You can look on Google Maps from the same position (where the car is) and the trunk is clear but the Google Maps camera blurs the tips as it is a steep view straight up. They look fairly young trees, comparative, not Victorian although I am far from being an expert I discover seemingly more very day.
Hmmm. I'm going to plump for European Larch on the basis of the foliage colour in the one picture in good light, but Conifers might have clearer ideas.
Yes likely E. Larch? Seems to be free of the awful Phytophthora ramorum.
I can't keep up with these latin names changing all the time for Larch!
Did you have a look at the trees below the dam at Vrnwy Stephen? On my visit I wasn't alone so just didn't get down to see these but pointed the laser at them from the dam. Probably towards the limit of the laser's range but recorded a consistant c40 metres for the Noble Fir (?) on the right of the photo. Could not see the bases of the Douglas Firs but look as though they may be mid 50 metres possibly to the late. The red trees, Copper Beeches, must be very close to the 34.2 metre record, couldn't see any bases but 34 metres came back from an estimation, looking down on them so will have hit foliage higher then the base.
Yes I saw them but ran out of time to visit them. Incidentally very tall Douglas at North western end of the lake. Some of them could be 53-55m opposite the bird hide.
Abies procera is a tree for Scotland. Likes it cool as its a sub alpine species. There are some massive trees there which must be the largest outside the Pacific Coast. Will reach 60m+.
Drat, I went so far down the west shore of Vyrnwy and then double backed over the dam, stopped at the ex 64 metre Douglas grove and then went over the top and down in to Aber Hirnant and so did miss the 55 metre Douglas you mention. The drive over the top to Aber Hirnant is superb for anyone reading and visiting this area. The day I drove over, I was in amongst a convoy of TVR cars which must have been having a club run out or something, what a drive for them.
Stephen, when you said that you had found trees others hadn't in hidden places and which may be champions, I wondered if Noble may be one and you had found a very tall speciman?
Visit them next time! Yes nice Noble Fir. It is considered only a minor species and has not really been trialled properly in plantations. Big trees are all in collections but best place for big Nobles are at Benmore and Blair Atholl. If they don't cone up at the top (causes breakage but grow new leaders) they could reach 60m+ as they are exposure resistant.
Drive up the other way from Vrnwy up to 'Hell Fire' pass at over 530m a real gem of a ride!
Another beauty Abies concolor 'Lowiana' massive trees in Scotland but only in collections again 60m one day.
Off to Windsor Great Park today to look at a massive Sessile oak one of S. England's finest. Will report back.
Hello Conifers, thanks for placing this one on the map, I have just tweeked him to the correct location.
I wish that I had visited this group of trees, I wouldn't have known how to get down to them but on Google Maps the road down is clear although there is no sign posting at the entrance. I could have driven right down in the car and walked around these in not too much time.
the Greenhow plantation
Interesting what you say as it seems that Noble have been tried in plantations. I spotted a large swathe of blue on Google Maps, went to check and was frankly devastated as much as the trees when I found this. The whole plantation of Abies Procera was in the process of being or had just been felled. The tallest examples of this species in Yorkshire were certainly here, probably some 40 metres, 34 metres is the tallest remaining (County champion) that I measured (above the lady and horse) I was taken at what nice spire shapes they had retained as every single speciman that I have looked at either has a broken top or a squat, flat headed top. This plantation had retained spires probably because they were growing in a dense plantation.
Hello Stephen, I drobe over the 'Hell Fire' pass a few years ago (2011) but drove along the north east shore. I have just had a look on Google Maps and think that I can see your 55 metre Douglas Firs at the north west point of the lake, just over the bridge from the turn to go over the pass mentioned above. They are not visible from where I turned.
I didn't really 'drobe', I drove.
Hi Rob - I improved the map location of this tree from the photos, can you double-check to see if I've got the right tree, please?
I can't find where this nearby tree is though, at the moment it's mapped in the middle of a building (!).
My tall Douglas is along the roadside, just opposite the bird hide on the other side of the lake.
So sad about the Noble Fir. Commercially the timber is not that valuable, could have left them alone. Lets hope that this 'natives only' virus does not spread like Ebola! Not another new planting of scrub please!
Nobles can break at the top due to the weight of cones in autumn gales, but very resistant to exposure to wind generally.
otago arboriculture class
Hello Matt, the look like Christmas lights at first glance, a tree decorated. You have some big Redwoods in New Zealand, 72 metres in the famous grove near Rotorua.
The narrow leaves make me suspect this might be Ulmus × hollandica, rather than pure U. glabra - anyone else have any advice?
die Ulme wurde schon mehrmals wissenschaftlich untersucht. Angeblich soll es die einzige Bergulme Europas sein, die resistent gegen den Ulmensplintkäfer ist. Es wurden schon Klone davon gezogen, die ebenfalls resitent sind. Hier mal ein paar Artikel über die Ulme:
In der Literatur wiederum heißt es, dass die Samen, unbehaarte Flügelnüsschen, für Bergulme sprechen würde.
Ich selbst kann es nicht sagen, was nun stimmt.
Danke! I am happy to accept that ;-)
ich kann es wie gesagt nicht beurteilen. Hoffen wir einfach mal, dass die Fachleute, die sich die Ulme angeschaut haben, richtig liegen ;-)
Just looking for the Lydney Beech I have realised that I have made a mistake with this tree, must have hit the wrong digit when registering. 41 metres was the reading with the laser, David Alderman had recorded 40 metres in 2005 with one of his readings, clinometer suggested 43 metres.
You can edit your record by clicking on the pencil icon which follows your user-name after the measurement.
This photo shows Celtis sp.
Probably Celtis occidentalis (var.cordata) - bark developing flanged ridges, leaves matt, downy and serrated.
Off to Wales next week to see your trees near Waterloo Bridge plus some new ones. Will try to take a look at the Elan Valley Douglas on the way, where exactly are they?
Have you contacted the F.C. (now Natural Resources Wales) about these trees as I think they need a guarantee of protection. Especially it seems very likely they are the tallest Douglas Fir in the Northern Hemisphere outside the Pacific Coast of North America. I am sure they would be very interested. Although some ways better to keep the public quiet about them as having thousands of people trampling around them can be detrimental to their health due to root/ soil compaction, as the F.C often makes a trail to the trees. But letting the forest manager know is I think a good idea. What do you think?
Hello Stephen, http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2526900
these are the trees in the Elan valley area.
Owen reported the Waterloo Grove trees to the Forestry Commission last year if I remember correctly. You are right about people tramping around them would cause damage although that said the land in front of them is full of bracken, brambles and hidden gullies. Have a good time, look forward to hearing about your experiences. Take some photos and report your trees whatever or wherever they are.
Got back on Sat. 12 days in North Wales. 1326 miles driven! Loads to talk about some good some bad with discoveries expect posts and much talk in the coming weeks. Waterloo Grove is amazing!
Hello Stephen, have you been to North New South Wales, 1,300 miles is some going! Looking forward to hearing about what you found and hopefully some trees registered with photographs?
How long did you spend at the Waterloo Grove, it is the sort of place that you don't want to leave in a way as the trees tower. Did you measure it yourself? Don't be afraid of submitting readings, your readings for the Aber Hirnant trees were practically identical with what the Forestry Pro recorded when I pointed it. I think anyone or everyone will accept your measurements.
Big Douglas around Betws y Coed:-
1326 miles is including the journey there and back, but drove about 850 miles around Snowdonia! Very easy to do as its such a big area and driving 100 miles a day from my B+B was very easy and with no potholes!
Spent several mornings at Waterloo Grove. Crashing about the undergrowth! One thing which is apparent is that you don't get any sense of scale of the trees. Your 36m Scots Pine looks very small in comparison. I did not measure any, crashing about the brambles and ferns could have taken days with a tape for a baseline.
It looks as though they have been thinned about 15 years ago judging by the stumps, which they have responded to. The quality of the trees is superb and you may have noticed a massive cone crop at the top. This was a once a decade opportunity to collect seed which I did in abundance! There must have been a drought year in 2013 as trees often produce a heavy seed crop during times of stress. This has taken a lot of energy for growth out of the trees and put it into seed production. Consequently the leaders have been much shorter this year also possibly due to a dry early summer.
The Douglas seed now collected from Washington is absolutely crap with coarse poorly formed trees. The Waterloo Grove is most likely to have originated from the Washington Coast or Cascade foothills according to my FC seed import records, possibly from near Vancouver as well. The high quality is due to the loggers felling the best trees with good genes and subsequently collecting the seed for export to the UK as a byproduct. Sorry my forestry hat is on now!
I would say average height of the stand is over 55m with many dominants at or over 60m. The growth rate is as good or better than anywhere in their native range. Very sheltered could reach 75m! If left alone!
Saw the trees at Miner's bridge and across the road at Artists Wood. Even better quality here with perfect cylindrical stems with nice thin bark (some of the best I have ever seen.) These were planted in 1927. I am convinced that you may have missed the tallest at the bottom of the slope where I am sure there are at least 6 trees at or approaching 60m. Also a Grand fir 60m? They are at the bottom of the slope and I think Owen got 60m for one in his book?
Thats the good news now the bad:-
I'm afraid Dothistroma or otherwise known as red band needle blight is attacking Douglas now and the trees at Miners Bridge are suffering with 30-40% needle loss caused by the fungus prematurely removing the older needles.
I will write a report on this for MT as this I'm afraid will have an impact on these trees in Europe, something which I find very depressing!
Hello Stephen, keep putting your forestry hat on as very interesting for a lay man like myself.
I just don't know how I missed the biggest trees here as I wandered round and round up and down the trails above the Miners Bridge and drove right along the road at the top and stopped and measured numerous trees?
east bank of the Afon Llugwy River, about 400 metres above t
I crossed the Miners Bridge and turned immediately left along the east bank of the Afon Lugwy and followed the track north for more than 300 metres, quote:
'Douglas Fir 60 metres 297 cm 300 metres north of Miners Bridge, at bottom of bank of 1921 trees'
I definitely went further along than 300 metres, the views that I could get the to the tips the trees were not 60 metres with the Forestry Pro but early 50 metres? They are difficult to measure I accept and I was hoping to beat the previous day 65 metres at the Waterloo Grove but I was disappointed as none came near. I probably could live with a speciman or two or perhaps late 50 metres but I don't think that they are any taller. I did see several broken stumps (photo in link) which I wondered if could be Owen's tree as it was about 300m north of the Miners Bridge just up from the bottom of the stand. My lay man's eye is abit different to your professional eye, the Afon Lugwy trees did/do not look as luxuriant as the Waterloo Grove (see clean 53 metre in link above), the crowns were narrower which I thought may be because the location is more exposed to the west and north west winds howling down the valley.
Pentre du farm, opp Miners Bridge path just west of Betws
I agree about the Artists Wood trees, finer specimans than the Lugwy trees, for me anyway.
I didn't particularly notice the heavy cone crop but interesting to know why this occurs. Agree about the ferns and brambles around the big trees at Waterloo, there are also hidden gullies which you cannot see. I ended up in one up to my chest last year when attempting to get to the base of the 65 metre tree to girth, the gully was completely hidden, the ground looked no different to that which I had traversed. At least this will add a degree of protection for these trees. I did notice when measuring the 67 metre tree that the crown looked sparser then the 65 and 64 metre tree just in front of it which are still luxuriant. The leading shoot was also short, funny that you should make that point as this is something that I definitely did notice as it was more stumpy then the neighbouring trees and abit easier to get a hit on. I muts update the other tree, readings of 65.6-65.8 metres for him this year and still a good leading shoot. You are right about the Scots Pines, look like comparative dwarfs, as said measured numerous trees now at Waterloo and every one is 60 metres, one being early 50 metres to the part that I could hit but 60 metres I estimate to the top.
The 53m tree you measured at the Western end of the grove is at the opposite end where the tall trees I saw. The trees I viewed were definitely taller than 53m. Feel I am a good judge of height now and my trees I am sure 55-60+. The soil is better here also. I have some pics to upload but of low resolution, soon I promise.
You may be right and may have measured them? Feel that this stand is not too exposed and low elevation is the key to shelter, but yes potentially exposed to the south west, but there was no damage from last winters storms, but at sheltered Coed y Brenin there was damage exposed to the south west.
Ha! I think I fell in the same hole! There were a lot of rotten logs hidden in the undergrowth! Such are the hazards of measuring trees!
The thinning crown I'm afraid is Dothistroma. 10 years ago I thought Douglas was bombproof, but now not so sure. I did think it could live at least 300 years here and maybe 500 in the colder regions of Scotland. But now we have to factor in climate change and diseases.
Do you have a big garden? You could grow your own Waterloo Grove as I have plenty of seed!
There are so many diseases now mostly brought in by man and his incompetent greed. Now oak trees are under threat in Southern UK by Oak Processionary Moth. Brought in from the continent on a few trees. Now in Greater London and slowly spreading outwards. It could have been stopped but incompetence and politics have stopped this. Apparently helicopter spraying is not popular in London as a few Blue Tits were killed by the safe insecticide. Now their entire habitat is under threat and sacrificing a few birds I think is a price worth paying!
Stephen, of the miles that you drove around Snowdonia, did you travel up the A4085 north from Beddgelert? A mile or so north on the west side of the road in the plantations are some conifers standing proud above the rest, one looks abit like Grand Fir? Did you assess the height if so? Never wennt this far up. Further north, Llyn Cwellyn looks a place with great potential, mountain shelter but the stands don't look 60 metres, 35-40 metres at most I would estimate from the buildings.
Yes I did drive up here but not all the way. Big conifers below Snowdon at Youth Hostel. Redwood and Big Noble Fir. Owen may have visited here?