Adjusting my first mail. I like people who are interested in the images, and their qualities and overall-view of the tree. So I have an individualistic approach to trees. Some of us are more interested in numbers and records. I welcome everyone who prefers the image. And especially if they can make a difference. You will do so, I'm sure of that.
This is one of the corky-barked clones, though with broader more regularly lobed leaves than the commonest variant. We don't have reliable clonal names for all of these, but 'Lucombeana' covers all the forms that came out of Lucombe and Pince's nursery.
I have two sequoia trees approximately 20m tall x 5m girth in scenic North Bend Washington, USA. One recently lost a limb, which unfortunately almost destroyed my neighbor's garage. My neighbor has engaged a lawyer to force me to cut these beautiful trees down. I would like to find an arborist expert on sequoia. I want to do all I can to save these trees from destruction. Is there an arborist in western Washington State that would be best for this assignment? Thanks
RedRob, thanks again for the information. I was also able to find an arborist in a local town, Fall City, that may know about sequoia. It was a little to dreary to take premium pictures today. It should be nice tomorrow, before five days of forecasted rain.
I was not certain I should register my trees; they are not that big by sequoia standards. I have a Bigleaf maple (girth about 8 - 9 m) as well as cedars and firs that are larger. I'll take accurate measurements with the pictures tomorrow.
The weather here is very nice. We are not getting pounded by the storms that are rolling through California.
Could someone tell me, is it Q x Hispanica that keeps it's leaves all year? And 'Lucombeana' that loses most but not all of its leaves? I recently uploaded a 5.18m oak which I think is Q x Hispanica as it still had all its leaves(this was in mid November). Would I be correct in saying this?
The commonest clones of Q. x hispanica in Britain and Ireland are 'William Lucombe', which should have about 80% of its leaves left in December and 20% by March, and an unnamed corky-barked clone grafted at the base on Turkey Oak, which is almost completely evergreen. Rarer clones include 'Fulhamensis' which loses most of its leaves after Christmas and a few unnamed deciduous clones. 'William Lucombe' is the only clone that regularly reaches 5m girth with a good single bole.
Thanks, this makes things clearer, I shall upload an image of the tree as it is at the minute. The trunk was hidden away for many years by Rhodo Ponticum until these were cleared about 5 years ago and until this time you couldn't see the size of the trunk.
'William Lucombe's' leaves are Turkey-Oak sized but more regularly lobed. The most vigorous examples might have slightly bigger leaves - it's probably the biggest-leaved clone (or group of clones perhaps by now) of Q. x hispanica. Q. castaneifolia is always a possibility for a look-alike with significantly longer leaves: this is deciduous but can hold only its dead leaves through winter.
I have uploaded pictures of the two trees, both are not the same examples but are the same species of tree. The 5.18 tree is exactly the same species as the one I have uploaded with nearly all of its leaves still on. The other Lucombe Oak? I have uploaded has nearly all of its leaves gone, I have also uploaded images of the leaves of both trees.
Hello Owen, what is the champion for height for Ceanothus in Britain, can only find two on the register of 5 and 6 metres, Lambeth 2001 and Canterbury Cathedral respectively when I use Champions of B&I and county search? I have come across one which is around 5 metres, not sure which type it is?
Stephen, any news about your trees, have you managed to get the photos off your phone? Still looking forward to hearing about and seeing more of or some of your trees from your visit to Wales? Hope that it isn't a wait in vain?
Very frustrating, given a phone which has so far been impossible to upload to my computer, will try over the holidays and failing that will have to scan prints! Been busy, but now have a month off work to hopefully upload some pictures and a couple of reports.
To change the subject, I have reclaimed some old growth Western Red Cedar timber from a children's climbing frame and hopefully to make a great garden bench.
Last night with a magnifying glass I counted 300 years of growth in a piece of timber 13cm x 8cm!!!!!!!!!!!!
Never seen such slow growth!!! Sadly from a tree which could be a 1000 years old, likely from B.C Coast or Vancouver Island. Worth a fortune and I could not accept that someone wanted to cut it up for firewood!!
A few weeks ago I mentioned a newly met problem with uploading pictures. My new system operates under Windows 8. The Windows explorer automatically rotates pictures 90% if they are taken vertical. For everyone who will meet this problem in due time, there isn't an easy solution. This problem is caused by Microsoft and Microsoft takes no responsibility, so I learned on a microsoft-community blog. I have asked the question to my computer manufacturer and to the FAQ man of a well-known Computer-magazine. The manufacturer said that it is a problem of the Microsoft software and they cannot help. The FAQ man of the computer magazine says, I have to process the picture with a qualitatively good rotating-program.
In the meantime I solve this problem by uploading the pictures on my second system (windows 7) and using my network to upload them to my main computer. So be prepared all, once you switch to Windows 8, you will meet the same problem.
I would agree. I've found it very difficult to be confident with this clone as it just represents an extreme of the variable natural habit and never seems to have been raised as grafts, but this one looks as good a candidate as any I've seen.
Hello Owen, I was looking through the trees from gosford which you uploaded onto the tree register website, I just wanted to clarify that the chamaecyparis pisifera which was uploaded is the cultivar, plumosa aurea.
As I was reading the section on sequoia trees outside their natural range, I noticed that there was no information about sequoia trees in Africa. I can confirm that they exist: I was recently in South Africa where I visited the Stellenbosch University Botanical Garden in the city of Stellenbosch, where they have a giant sequoia growing side-by-side with a california redwood. Unfortunately, I did not take any pictures, but the trees are mentioned on the garden's wikipedia entry:
Ik heb net een tripje naar Turkije gemaakt. Wel wat aardige bomen gezien. Ik ga ze plaatsen. Een kernvraag is echter of op onze database Turkije alleen Europa is (bestaand0 of ook via Azië benaderd/bereikt kan worden. Ik heb de neiging om nu mijn bomen onder Turkije, Europa te uploaden. Dat is wellicht niet correct, omdat Antalya en Cappadocië tot het werelddeel Azië behoren.
Wees hier helder en transparant. De Bosporus en Zee van Marmora vormen de grens tussen Europa en Azie. Bomen ten westen van deze wateren horen in Europa te worden geregistreerd. De overige bomen horen in Azie thuis.
Staatkundig klopt dat. Turkije is voor een klein deel Europa en een groot deel Azië. In onze database is Turkije echter geheel onder Europa geclassificeerd. Dus alle provincies staan onder Europa. Ik kan (geloof ik) geen bomen onder Turkije Azië invoeren tenzij ik me vergis. Tim moet daar maar uitsluitsel over geven. In essentie vind ik echter wel dat het grootste deel van Turkije staatkundig onder Azië valt.
Cultureel denk ik daar genuanceerder over sinds mijn laatste bezoek,
Maar dat doet er niet echt toe. We hebben hier toch een staatkundige classificatie?
Russia is of course also in both continents, which could be significant if we get many trees there.
For completeness, Kazakhstan also has (a small) part in Europe, part (most) in Asia. Mostly treeless steppe, but there could be some large Populus or Salix on the banks of the Ural River (the boundary between Europe and Asia there).
I agree that more diffuse situations exist. Concerning Turky, the only European part of Turky is the west of Istanbul. The overwhelming rest of the country is Asian Let's say about 99%. In this database I haven't any problems if Tim decides that Turky belongs Europe. Politically I have problems with that idea, but we are not in politics here.
Ik heb gisteren een onderwerp opgevoerd over het feit dat Turkije zowel in Europa en Azië ligt en hoe dat in deze database is opgenomen. Ik had deze vraag beter in jouw overleg kunnen starten. Ik mag er immers niet van uitgaan dat jij alles ziet. Zou jij willen reageren op dat onderwerp. Het lijkt me ook nuttig dat anderen het weten, vandaar dat ik het als algemeen onderwerp heb gepost.
alle Ginko-Bäume in Deutschland (bei MT) mit gleich- oder größerem Umfang sind erst am Anfang, in der Mitte oder im 2. Drittel des 19. Jahrhunderts gepflanzt worden. Kann es sein das du dich mit den Pflanzjahr vertan hast? Bist du dir wirklich sicher? Das würde bedeuten das dieser Ginko sehr langsam an Umfang zugelegt hat.
RedRob, at 2014-12-11 18:16:34, edited at 2014-12-11 18:21:27, said:
Could I ask a question, the small blue Douglas Fir here, is this going to be just a normal Douglas Fir or could it be the variant 'Glauca'? I noticed it in particular when I measured these trees a couple of years ago now but didn't really think anything about it and wasn't aware that there was a 'Glauca' type then. The reason that I ask is that I have noticed another very bluey tree in another photograph in a group of trees which the laser measured at 48 metres in Aug 2012. I have uploaded a photograph of it (bottom photo) it is directly in the centre of the photo and clothed with foliage right down it's trunk.
Hello Conifers, incredible winds, 81 mph here at High Bradfield near Sheffield yesterday, 61 mph at Emley Moor which I suspected as the TV is being affected at the moment.
There is a gardening programme on BBC2 in the mornings called 'Great Gardens from above' with Christine something in a balloon. I couldn't catch it but this morning she was in Northumberland, I wondered if she could have been at Cragside? Did you see it Con? I would love to see the trees at Cragside from above, would be spectacular.
This type only has the yellow at the tips of the branches.... Most of the branch is green while the ends of the shoots are a bright golden colour.
Martin Tijdgat, at 2014-11-30 10:09:56, edited at 2014-11-30 10:18:42, said:
I rather see a photo off the whole tree but this can be the cultivar Ellwood's Empire. I have no knowledge off this cultivar, but I know Esveld Nurseries in Boskoop has a picture of this cultivar that resembles wwhitsides97 photo.
Hello Martin, I'm afraid there is no planting date for this tree, however, it is older than most of the lawson cypress cultivars in the arboretum. I wouldn't like to say for sure but it possibly is 50-60 years old. Ellwoods Empire could indeed be a possibility.
Can anyone tell me why Monkey Puzzles die? in the last 10 years there have been 5 that have died in Gosford, including the county champion girth tree. One month they are growing fine then the next they show signs of dying.
Not I think 'Fastigiata', which has steeply rising branches so that it retains a rather conic shape, but certainly a fine straight stem. (From this photo I wouldn't like to distinguish atlantica from libani, but I'm sure you can from the tree itself.)
Hi Martin - in one sense I'd disagree; at least in Britain, most trees planted as Atlas Cedar are Atlas Cedars.
But in a botanical sense, Atlas Cedar is so closely related to Lebanon Cedar, that it can't really be considered distinct at species level, so all Atlas Cedars are Cedrus libani; best classified as Cedrus libani subsp. atlantica.
Thanks for the corrections. I agree. But I see almost no Atlas cedars over here. Almost alll are Lebanon cedars, even the blue forms (Glauca). I don't know if it's right but our dutch climate is not correct for the more mountainnes heritage of the subsp. atlantica.
RedRob, at 2014-12-09 18:18:25, edited at 2014-12-09 18:18:59, said:
Hello Martin, Atlas Cedars seem to grow just as impressively with you as over here and in hilly areas. Perhaps it is down to popularity, Dutch aristocracy, toffs didn't like them, they weren't in vogue or fashion.
Another great mystery like the monster of Loch Ness and the Yeti, wrote 'Tallest tree in Southern England' once in the heading bar and yet it as come out repeated?
RedRob, at 2014-12-09 18:07:15, edited at 2014-12-09 18:12:45, said:
Hello Owen, look forward to hearing about your visit to Longleat Forest. It is a place that I would like to visit as well, when I visited Centre Parcs it was a foul day with torrential rain, thunder and low cloud but the conifers did look very, very tall around the cabins and central area where there is a heavily forested ravine, valley. Doubt that I would have been able to use the laser but would have loved to have had one that day. Have the trees in this area ever been properly looked at, who measured the Sequoiadendrons in the grove in the photo in the link below? In the photographs, the 54 metre Coast Redwood is not in a plantation but in a more open stand with other trees, I suspect that it may be or must be in the Centre Parcs area as the plantations that we looked at in Longleat looked dense more like the Charles Ackers Grove.
It says that Centre Parcs is home to hundreds of Coast Redwoods.
I think that the photo here of the Sequoiadendrons must be taken upslope from the ravine that I mentioned in the top paragraph, there looked to be some tall trees down there. These Seqys look as if they have quite nice spires so may still be adding height.
Do you think that the tallest tree in Britain could eventually be in Southern England somewhere like Longleat? I am just thinking about the frequency of very strong winds compared to Scotland and west Wales and the drier climate possibly protecting abit against fungus attacks.
An un-named hybrid Abies forrestii × Abies homolepis. I've seen this hybrid at several places (including RBG Edinburgh), likely that someone collected a whole lot of seed of one growing close to the other in a garden, and sold the seedlings to various gardens.
Very interesting - and an attractive foliage plant. I'd be interested in seeing the bark of this tree (as the parents are so different in bark, this is presumably distinctive in itself) - and in the height and girth of this specimen.
Yep, it is an attractive plant - combines the bold foliage of A. forrestii with the better dry-climate tolerance of A. homolepis; also starts coning young, and often bears cones low down. Always a good-looking tree whenever I've seen it.
Thanks - I shall enthrone this as the champion for the hybrid by default. Conifers, is the Edinburgh RBG tree of similar age (and a bit smaller in the drier climate there)? I've not measured it (or any of the others you refer to), doubtless passing them over as forrestii.
"Conifers, is the Edinburgh RBG tree of similar age (and a bit smaller in the drier climate there)?"
From memory, it's a little bit larger (maybe 20m?, and the largest of this hybrid I've seen). It's many years since I last got up to RBGE now so it's likely to be even larger now. It is (assuming it's still there!) a short way in northeast of the West Gate, toward the southern edge of the Pinetum area.
Discovered I took some (rather bad!) pics of it last time I was there, including one of the label; the label says "Abies homolepis var. umbellata" (which it obviously isn't), and accession number 1971.5734A - does that help locate it in any records?
In that case I do know the tree, and it was thriving last summer (16m x 234cm girth, so the Gosford tree is slightly taller). As it had grown from 198cm girth in 2004, the '1971' accession date could just possibly reflect the actual planting date as it's not a common number at Edinburgh.
In the pinetum at Edinburgh there is also a genuine A. homolepis var. umbellata from Wilson 7707, planted in 1915 but slightly smaller than 1971.5734A. I didn't compare the two - when it comes to Asiatic Abies I'm just glad when there's a label on them! The Edinburgh tree is the only known survivor from W 7707, but a much bigger var. umbellata at Dawyck was planted in 1924, presumably from a Wilson collection. On Alan Mitchell's card-index he suggested W 4078 for this tree (and also for trees at Vernon Holme, planted in 1908 and since lost, and at Holkham Hall). Oddly, a tree known to be from W 4078 still grows in the Edinburgh pinetum (1911.1010A) and is labelled, credibly, as A. forrestii. (It was one of two in 1985 when Alan commented 'verging on A. fabri').
I was also at Holkham the other month, and found a tree which I assumed to be the one Alan had suspected to be from W 4078. It had an unusually columnar habit for A. homolepis and unusually long leaves, so certainly not A. forrestii. The differences might suggest it's var. umbellata (I didn't see cones) but might be a result of the dry, continental climate there.
Well, this one doesn't look like 'Stewartii' - probably the late afternoon sunlight has turned it yellow in your picture of the bigger tree? So it's a green cultivar with semi-juvenile foliage (free tips to the scale-leaves) but not one I know.
For this tree, the foliage close-up is Chamaecyparis pisifera but the crown photo is of C. lawsoniana 'Stewartii' (moderately confident this time!) I wonder if this is actually the photo you said you would upload for '19993' (Lawsons cv with golden foliage at tips, which fits a mature slow-growing example of 'Stewartii'?)
I think to transfer this picture to 19993 you'd need to delete and re-upload it. You've probably worked out that you can edit each tree's details by clicking on the link 'edit data for this tree' (and other details by clicking on each pencil icon) - that is, to change 'Tree of undetermined species' into the right name.
Foliage detail photo shows Chameacyparis pisifera or Ch. p. 'Boulevard'
Tree photo is a Chamaecyparis lawsoniana. But I am pretty sure it is not a 'Stewartii' the ones I know are more yellow throughout, even if they are planted in a shady place. See photo of Ch. l. 'Stewartii' at Westonbird Arboretum (Valley Gardens) GB
The picture of the whole tree is the same as the picture of the foilage.... Not a great picture of the tree as I took it just before sunset... There are a few other examples of this tree I could upload if that would help?
Perhaps 'Stewartii' does have unusually long-tipped leaves then - I don't think I've studied the foliage close-up. Whole tree photo is certainly good for 'Stewartii' - the brightness of the colour always fades as these trees get older and produce less new growth each year.
WW, you said you were going to upload a whole-crown photo for the cypress with the yellow only at the shoot-tips? ('Naberi' is a possibility here - an attractive but seldom-seen clone).
Hello, I was out this afternoon getting some measurements, unfortunately the light faded too quickly to take decent photos... I will get a clear photo of both this tree and the crown of the tree with yellow only at the tips on Saturday hopefully.
Monique1961, at 2014-12-04 14:01:37, edited at 2014-12-04 14:06:37, said:
Als vijfjarige heb ik begin 1966 een takje van een populier wat in een vaas stond en wortel had geschoten, samen met mijn moeder geplant, als geboorteboompje, voor mijn pasgeboren broertje.
Als ik nu, bijna 50 jaar later, in Nederland ben en over de Kamerlingh Onnesweg in Hilversum rij, is de inmiddels reusachtige populier goed te zien. (Kamrad, Vogelpan 36). Dàt is ook de reden waarom ik deze twee "geboorte"boompjes voor mijn zoontje heb geplant.
In this special reservoir (13 km from the center of the village of Luras) there are two big specimens: the oldest one with 3000 years old, a second one around 2000 years old. And a third little one, with "only" 500 years old.
Our Old Sycamore is said to be perhaps around 300 years old, which would take it back to a time when the colony of Pennsylvania really WAS "Penn's Woods." It seems never to have grown straight upward. It has two main branches that sprawl over the original farmhouse's front yard. The closest branch here rests on the ground now and also has a support post that it has grown into. The other branch, closer to the house, is also supported by a large post.
Wow! This one escaped me on MT. I have been here several times and yes quite remarkable that trees of this size can be as big here as in Scotland or Wales, with only 900mm of rain! This tree may surpass the Douglas in Broadwood, Dunster?
Obviously the deeply weathered sandy brown earth soil type derived from the Lower Greensand has been a factor. A pity Southern England was not covered in Greensand as opposed to horrible chalk. There is something magical about this soil which I am interested in finding out about. Here in Oxon, Nuneham Courtenay also on Greensand grows big conifers with only 600mm of rain.
Big Western Hemlock too at Polecat.
I noticed the Sequoia had probably been hit by lightning above the cottage, presume this is the one Alan measured as 170' in his book? An overestimate perhaps?
Greensand is indeed the best soil in south-east England for tree-growth, and so many good tree sites are concentrated on it despite the tiny proportion of the country which it covers. I think the secret is that the grains are coarse enough to allow easy root-penetration but fine enough to be water-retentive. Soils washed down the from the Old Red Sandstone (Welsh Marches etc) and from ancient Scottish sandstone have just the same qualities. So, presumably, do loess soils in the Netherlands where trees can also grow very tall (without the benefits of much side-shelter from high hills as we have in England). Chalk is also much better than heavy clay, which covers so much of lowland England.
I have no idea how tall the Polecat Copse trees will grow. They are in a superbly sheltered spot and the two tallest have continued to produce long leaders through the 14 years I've known them, though they've lost their leaders once or twice and some others in the same line now have rough, bushy tops (but are still growing). Given the right soil, and shelter from dehydrating winds, Douglas don't seem to be troubled by drought or high summer temperatures. I don't know the local conditions for the 65m tree in the Massif Central of France but I would assume that summers there are hotter and drier than in Surrey.
That said, I suspect drought-stress rather than lightning for the loss of the top of the Giant Sequoia opposite Angle Cottage. Lightning would have been more likely to strike the higher tree-tops of the bank to the west. In 1995 we had a very dry summer near my home in Hastings and many of the taller Giant Sequoias died back a few metres (and have now recovered but rounded off).
Thanks. Yes I think the secret with Lower Greensand is the ability for trees to extract soil water much more easily due to the pores and matrix of the soil, coupled with a moderately acid ph and reasonable fertility. On a clay soil water holding capacity is obviously greater, but trees cannot extract it as well as on say Greensand due to the pores and soil matrix unfavorable for tree root growth and penetration. Subsequent capillary action of soil water through the soil is much better on Greensand. As it is a soft sandstone is must have weathered deeply as well. It also probably has no root depth restriction caused by an iron pan, which is frequent on acid sandy soils.
Ulmus and Quercus robur as an opposite example seems to love surface water gleys on clay vales.
It appears to me that Giant Sequoia much prefers sandy soils and the Bagshot Sand near my locality at Crowthorne and also at the Valley Gardens Near Windsor as you know grow big trees, despite only 600mm of rain, some 300mm less than at Polecat. Also Giant Sequoia and Douglas are adapted to grow on sandy well drained soils in their native habitat so it is no surprise.
The tree at Angle Cottage lost many metres due to crown dieback which I think is most likely lightning. Yes I have also seen Giant Sequoia die back due to drought, but I know that when lightning strikes Sequoias it often rarely leaves a scar on the trunk, possibly due to the insulation properties of the bark, however it sometimes does and I have seen trees blown apart in the most extreme examples. I know that Beech rarely leaves a scar and yet oak is badly affected. A difficult question and needs more research.
I know that the Massif Central is the wettest place in France with up to 2000mm, but one has to remember that with higher temperatures the evapotranspiration and summer soil moisture defict would be greater than at Polecat, so perhaps only the available rainfall/soil water there will be only slightly greater?
Windspeed is much less in Surrey than in Somerset, so perhaps they will grow to 60m+ at Polecat.
Is the Sequoiadendron near the cottage, here called 'King Kong' still likely to be 51 metres which you measured, assessed it as a few years ago or will it have added some height? I remember looking at this tree from angles and it would have been difficult to see the top and bottom to measure it. The Coast Redwood in the photo above is one at the top of the hill near the old big house but there is a taller one I am sure, immediately on the hillside above the 51 metre 'King Kong' Seqy. I took photos on an old mobile phone and have not been able to get the photos off it as don't have Bluetooth on my laptop. They would be 1.5MP photos so may not be that great. Anyway, this Coast Redwood looked pretty tall, slim and surely 40 metres plus. There is/was also a conifer plantation just the west of the 59 metre Douglas Fir grove, if I remember Larch and Spruce, Sitka snd Norway, which looked pretty tall.
Near Angle Cottage at Polecat Copse, the Sequoiadendron that died back around 2005 was the taller but slenderer of a pair. I had measured it at 48m in 2000 but may have underestimated - Alan's 170' c.1990 was presumably a bit too high. The fatter tree beside it (the one in 'Redwood World' has preserved its tip and had grown to 51m by 2011, but I can't guarantee how accurate this was either. I shall return with the laser in due course.
The larches are behind you in that Geograph photo, Rob. There are some Sequoia and Sequoiadendron crowning the hill-top which are very conspicuous across this part of Surrey, but the larch group are hidden in a small valley within the south-facing scarp.
Thanks too for the Center Parcs links. I'm not sure that the Grand Firs are as tall as they look. 50m has been quoted for the Sequoiadendron plantation there. I shall try to get on my next visit to Longleat.
Rayn, at 2014-06-20 11:32:02, edited at 2014-06-20 11:34:26, said:
There is a majestic elm at Övraböke, Halmstad, Sweden, as reported by Lars G Andersson in 2011. He believes it to be a pollarded tree, now abandoned, with an impressive girth of 10,6 metres. Looks multistemmed but still quite a monumental specimen.
I hope to visit this location some day but it's a long trip for me so it's unknown when I get the opportunity. I thought I might share it with you if someone are in the neighbourhood for some reason...
It's a few hours away from me, but I'll try to give it a visit and take some photos but I can't say when, quite busy right now with work and familythings etc... Hopefully it will be left standing for a litle while longer...
Hei Rayn, Thanks, it looks like the people there are very persistent, which is a good thing when this kind of projects are developed without caring these kind of elements. In many cases these valuable elements can be integrated in plans if people really want to do so.
Have good times with family and frends end of the year. Take your time.
Best wishes, Maarten
For readers who wonder what's this about, see: https://www.facebook.com/radda.appeltradet/info?tab=page_info Use Google Translate to get the point of what this is about.
Doesn't look like P. nubigenus, which has shorter, stiffer, denser leaves. How large is the plant? If just a small, young plant it could well still be P. salignus, as when young (up to maybe 1-2m tall?) they do have shorter leaves like this.
Unfortunately, there are no historic Alan Mitchell records for these younger plantings at Gosford. Do we know where the Forest Service (?) may have been sourcing them from?
wwhiteside97, at 2014-11-26 19:01:14, edited at 2014-11-26 19:46:22, said:
I will have to get down on Saturday to get a clearer picture of the tree and foliage. Would be hard to know where the Forest Service would have sourced these from as there haven't really been any plantings since and there may not be any records.
Not Podocarpus cunninghamii, that has shorter, broader leaves, and - like Podocarpus totara and Podocarpus nubigenus - is also harder and spinier than your comments suggest. Unfortunately, it's a large genus, and though not many are hardy, tracing the right one won't be at all easy.
Your picture of the crown now rules out P. salignus. I'd still be inclined to plump for P. totara (probably young vigorous trees have longer leaves than is quoted for old wild ones) but hybrids between salignus and totara do occur in cultivation. The largest and oldest known, at the Sir Harold Hillier Gardens, was 9m tall a couple of years ago, so if a sister-seedling was distributed to Gosford, it would be about the size of your tree by now.
Conifers, at 2014-11-29 18:02:26, edited at 2014-11-29 18:38:10, said:
That hybrid is the best option so far, certainly (a new one to me!).
Graag wil ik u uitnodigen in het beschermde kloosterdorp Steyl. Op uw pagina staat slechts 1 Sequoia (mammoet) uit +- 1880. Eenzelfde soort staat bij ons op Sequoiahof naast ons woonhuis. Deze is met zekerheid hoger. Daarnaast staan op het hofje nog een Amerikaanse eik en een wilde kastanje, beiden uit circa 1860. Verder ligt er naast ons woonhuis een botanische tuin die in 1933 is aangelegd. Er staan echter ook bomen van het vroegere landgoed. Al met al een boomrijke omgeving. Met vriendelijke groet, sjaak Smetsers www.moeejendaag.nl tel 06-21878303
The hybrid is of course intermediate between the parents. Leaf length / width ratio (A. koreana has shorter, broader needles, A. veitchii longer, slenderer needles), and the degree of white below (A. koreana more vivid white often covering the full width of the underside, A. veitchii less vivid white and usually in two bands with the green midrib showing easily) are the best features to look for.
Jeroen Pater and I visited this oak at a day in November 1999. At the same day we also visited the oak Napoleon in Zabor, somewhat more to the north-east, wich had a girth of even 10.45 m and was the biggest circumferenced oak of Poland at that time. It was also hollow and a few years later this oak also was set on fire. It survived, but the burning was repeated after a few years and the oak died.
The biggest girthed tree of the Netherlands, a hollow Sweet Chestnut (see Kastanjedal ) also was set on fire several times, the last time in 2005 and till now has survived.
die Eiche in Hornoldendorf (Außenmauer des Ritterguts) wurde vor zwei Jahren auch in Brand gesetzt. Letztes Jahr hat es noch so ausgesehen, als ob sie es wohl nicht überlebt. In diesem Jahr, als ich dort war, hat sich wieder recht viel grün gezeigt. Und zwar an Ästen, die noch 2013 kahl waren. Sie scheint sich also zu erholen. Vielleicht schafft es ja diese Eiche hier auch so wie die in Hornoldendorf. Hoffen wir also mal.
I don't think keeping trees a secret is a good idea. They give Chrobry a value of 4.300000 (I think) zlotty. That is a lot of money. If the Chrobry oak is that expensive, why did they not put smoke and heat detectors inside.
I think a better solution is to some how close the gabs of a hollow tree, so nothing that can burn can get in. It won't work with all hollow trees, but I think it will work with a lot of them. I think is is very hard to burn a tree that has a trunk with no gabs.
Sadly keeping champion trees secret from the public is the only way to protect them from vandalism. But in this case the tree was so well known it was impossible. As I have said before, in the UK there are many rare plants, where location details are kept deliberately vague to ensure protection.
The recent climbing damage to the 66m Douglas fir in Scotland (not deliberate vandalism) I feel is a wake up call not to give exact location details for champion trees and giving the 'wider' general public this information is a risk to them. But recording and uploading them is perfectly acceptable on MT.
I hope those responsible are caught and prosecuted!
Indeed this tree was to famous to hide it from the public. But, the other very big oak in Poland, called Napoleon at Zabor, was not well known, in fact it was a rather secret tree standing at a lonely place to be found only by insiders along a small sand road. It was set on fire very probable by local young boys and I suppose this also was the case with the Chrobry oak, like with the "Kabouterboom", the big Sweet Chestnut in Holland.
So I think most of these hollow old trees are more at risk from local young people than from people from elsewere.
Andrew Weber, at 2014-11-22 13:13:13, edited at 2014-11-22 13:27:23, said:
Moreover, in Poland many big trees, especially oaks, were set on fire, not only the biggest. I have seen in 2014 a few oaks with girth ranging from 6,5 to 8 metres that also suffered an arson and they usually grew in remote places.. So the largest trees should be preserved rather by fence, because cameras could be stolen indeed.. And it is a matter of local government that trees are conserved or 'unwanted', like here, Chrześcijanin (the Christian) Oak in Poland: street.
All in all, I hope that miracle will happen and Chrobry will survive, but it is horrible that someone wants to destroy peaceful monumental trees..