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RedRob, at 2014-04-17 17:27:29, said:
Hope to have abit of help with 100% verification for this tree. Emailed Duncombe to ask them to confirm but no reply.

Photo 4, a 32 metre Beech had fallen over winter plus a smaller Sycamore and opened up a window to see this tree. Photo 1, the three tall trees in the centre, the one on the right was definitely Oak when I measured it at 34.6 metres last year. I couldn't see the bases of the other two to hit them with the laser. I think that they were Oak, took photos of the ground underneath and Oak and Beech leaves but I amjust not 100% sure as the Oak and Ash bark patterns on trees on this estate are quite if very similar. I stood 48.2 metres below the right branch tip of this tree doing a horizontal measurement. The laser measured 40.8-41.2 metres for the vertical separation between the tree base and tip. I did over 30 measurements to just make sure that I was not getting deflection, mis-readings from any stray closer twigs between the laser and tree base but got measurements in this range consistantly. No leaves on trees and difficult to get a hit on the tallest twig, right one which was the highest, so if anything it may be abit more than 41.2 metres but I will go with 41 metres.

Are these photos good enough to confirm 100% that this is Oak, the twigs were so high up?

The 32 metre fallen Beech in the photo, the tree just above it is the 36.2 metre Ash, the two Beeches just up to it's right, the front one in 40 metres, very lucky that some of these didn't fall. It is very sheltered from the SW wind at the bottom of this escarpment, surprising that this has fallen (and several other Beeches and what looks like a big Sycamore on the escarpment), there must have been a whirlwind or vortex or something?

Jeroen Philippona, at 2014-04-17 22:04:20, said:
Hi Rob,

Better buy a looking glass for identification of high branches. Soon there will be leaves, so identification will be easy. Branch pattern of common oak and ash is very different, so should not be a problem.

A height of 41 m is not amazing for an oak at such a sheltered location, but oak, beech, ash and lime all four can grow to such heights. In Bialowieza there are many pedunculate oaks of 40 to 41 m and some of around 42 m with one over 43 m as heighest measured. This is at a site with rather dry climate and cold winters. There is of cours much less wind in such a far inland location compared to Yorkshire. The very tall sessile oaks in some forests in France are on very favorable sites but perhaps these trees also are genetically of a special quality.


RedRob, at 2014-04-18 16:25:51, said:
Hello Jeroen, I corrected the map co-ordinates on Google and that of the 36 metre Ash near it, the crowns on the two trees do not look the same and this tree looks the same as the definite 34.6 metre Oak in front of it, I am 99% sure it is Oak. Even through the laser rangefinder I was still not 100% sure but the leaves on the floor below were Oak and Beech. Oak, Quercus Robur or Ash, it is a Britain and Ireland champion for height.

RedRob, at 2014-04-19 16:38:41, said:
I have added an up trunk photo of this 41 metre tree, does this help to identify?

common ash (Fraxinus excelsior) '12653' It has flummoxed me, the bark looks Ash as here with this definite tree (click on all four photos to see added up trunk view) but it also looks exactly like the Oaks on the estate.

Jeroen Philippona, at 2014-04-20 13:02:25, edited at 2014-04-20 13:16:05, said:
The bark pattern of the ash is typically for that species. It differs form most oaks in being more regular, less deep furrowed, less rough looking. The bark patter of the supposed 41 m oak indeed looks more like oak than ash to me. Also the branch pattern looks much more like oak. Ash has rather coarse, thick twigs, pedunculate ans sessile oak normaly have finer but more winding / irregular branches.

Something related: recently the American tree expert Bart Bouricius found a new world height record for Quercus: last week he measured an oak high in the mountains of Costa Rica if the species Quercus bumelioides with a height of 60.4 m (198 feet)! The CBH over buttresses is 14.2 m (46'5") but above the buttresses at 4.3 m (14') height the girth is 5.8 m (18'9").

The oak is proparly called "Grandfather Oak".

There is reported an even taller and larger oak in the region he wants to visit soon.

There were already reported oaks of 50 to 60 m from these forests, but now this has been proven by a laser measurement!

So the height of this subtropical oak is over 11 m taller than any oak accurate measured in Europe or the USA, were the records stay below 49 m till now.

There are reported (but not proven) Quercus trees also of 60 m from Asia and of 50 m from Iran.

Here is a link to the report: .

Monumentale bomen · Registreer
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Martha, at 2014-04-20 12:15:27, said:
Geachte heer, mevrouw, Uit de provincie Zeeland zijn een paar monumentale bomen opgenomen, waaronder de linde en tamme kastanje in de nabijheid van kasteel Westhove? Als plaatsnaam staat Domburg erbij vermeld, echter dit is Oostkapelle. Evenals de bomen in Berkenbosch. Ik zou u willen vragen of dit gewijzigd kan worden. Bijvoorbaat dank. Met vriendelijke groet, Martha Wedts de Swart, 0118583340.

thetreehunter, at 2014-04-20 10:01:46, said:
Tree Professor Peter Quelch with the great BP nr Homorod
Scholem Alejchem, at 2014-04-20 10:01:50, said:

Stephen Verge
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RedRob, at 2014-04-17 15:39:05, said:
Hello Stephen, been quite a while, are you still with us? Did you purchase your laser?

Stephen Verge, at 2014-04-20 08:08:45, said:
Hello Rob and all

Yes I am still with you but I have been very busy with family, taken on an allotment and generally very busy with my gardening business, also sheltering after the winter we have just had!! Not good for your laser measuring!

Laser has been put on hold as usual just time is needed, my spare time seems to shrinking rapidly of late!

Are there any major tree losses i.e champions?

I was worried about the big Douglas Fir in North Wales after that bad gale?



Stephen Verge, at 2014-04-20 08:08:53, said:
Hello Rob and all

Yes I am still with you but I have been very busy with family, taken on an allotment and generally very busy with my gardening business, also sheltering after the winter we have just had!! Not good for your laser measuring!

Laser has been put on hold as usual just time is needed, my spare time seems to shrinking rapidly of late!

Are there any major tree losses i.e champions?

I was worried about the big Douglas Fir in North Wales after that bad gale?



Conifers, at 2014-04-18 22:07:06, said:
Thanks for the extra photos! Yes, clearly Thuja plicata. The bark photos also show typical Thuja plicata bark.
Karlheinz, at 2014-04-18 23:25:14, said:
I faced Christoph Michels and the "Kiefernspezi" as representatives of the "Deutsche Dendrologische Gesellschaft e.V." with your determination and asked to comment.



Karlheinz, at 2014-04-20 07:06:56, said:
I have changed the species to Thuja plicata.

Typical whitish pattern on the branches underside, the habitus of the entire tree and the bark point to Thuja plicata. Cones, which would also be suitable for distinction, could not be found yet.

RedRob, at 2014-04-18 16:35:42, said:
Summising it is Beech but never seen a bark pattern like this before on Beech? Is this some sort of variant?

MoritzNagel, at 2014-04-18 19:09:02, said:
Hi Redbob,

that bark pattern is typical for Carpinus betulus, if I'm not mistaken.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, at 2014-04-18 20:24:20, said:
I'd agree with Hornbeam, though the pattern is not really typical unless the tree is smaller than I'd imagined. I've never seen a Beech like that.

Martin Tijdgat, at 2014-04-18 21:22:26, said:
Horbaem is the species. Barkpattern is very beautiful but typical for some hornbaem. I don't know why, or howe iit's formed.


RedRob, at 2014-04-19 16:14:11, said:
Hello Owen, Martin et al. I have posted some more photographs, I took a photo of the leaves beneath the tree and they struck me as being Beech, not toothed like Hornbeam? Perhaps I am wrong here and Hornbeam leaves are more variant then I expected. In the longer range photo, it is the fourth tree trunk from the right, next to the definite 34.6 metre probably 35 metre Oak at the top of the crown. I measured 28 metres to a part that I could see was this undetermined tree but couldn't clearly see the top for twigs so couldn't do a heighting for the actual height. Judging by the Oak next door it must be about 30 metres.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, at 2014-04-19 17:35:57, said:
The second trunk photo has convinced me too that it's a Hornbeam. You're right, Rob, there are no Hornbeam leaves in your photo of dead leaves on the ground - they decay more quickly through the winter months. There are Beech leaves, and also leaves of both species of oak - about twice as many Q. petraea leaves as Q. robur leaves. The Q. petraea leaves have shallower, more regular lobes and there is always a leafstalk 1.5 - 2.5cm long. The Q. robur leaves have irregular lobes with deeper sinuses between them, and the stalk is seldom as much as 1cm long. There are two small lobes which point backwards on either side of the leaf-stalk (auricles); Q. petraea only ever shows very slight auricles. With practice it is possible to differentiate the species in leaf from a distance, but binoculars will help you to begin with. I should like to know which species the tallest oaks here belong to!

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Rayn, at 2014-04-16 08:05:30, said:
How far is spring in your area and which trees are first?

Snow have now melted, in almost all shaded places too here, and most trees have developed fresh buds and the willows have formed their catkins.

aubreyfennell, at 2014-04-16 17:54:40, said:
Living in Carlow,south-east Ireland at 52'50N and 50 km from the Irish Sea as I do,spring has burst reasonably early

this year. We have just suffered the wettest winter on record with almost 500mm rainfall in Dec to Feb. It usually

is about 170mm for this period.The lowest winter temperature recorded was -2.8c and we had no snow. April has been dry ,sunny and warm and the most common trees such as Quercus,Fagus,Acer pseudoplatanus and Crataegus are almost fully in leaf. Our swallows arrived on the 9th and butterflies such as peacock,red admiral,brimstone,holly blue,small tortoiseshell and green veined white have emerged in the garden but I am still waiting for speckled wood and orange tip. I am still clearing up fallen trees after the most devastating storm[Darwin]in 20 years.On February 12th wind

gusts of 178kms an hour hit the south-west and reached 135kms here in Carlow.Up to 3 million forestry trees were flattened and many of our monumental trees are now gone.

KoutaR, at 2014-04-17 14:21:41, said:
Here in Saxony (Sachsen, Germany), the first tree bud burst was about three weeks ago. Now many species have at least half-grown leaves, exceptions are e.g. Quercus, whose leaves are starting to grow, and Fraxinus, which is always the last one. Spring is early in this years. The winter was very mild, with only a few days snow.

A few years ago I wrote down when each tree species come into leaf but I don't find my notes for now. Anyway, Sambucus nigra is always the first one. Other early species include Aesculus, Carpinus, Betula, Sorbus aucuparia and Crataegus.

Maarten Windemuller, at 2014-04-18 09:02:37, edited at 2014-04-18 19:49:57, said:
> 40 years I follow the beech leaves at 1 of may. When there is sun shining you can catch those thin silver lines at the borders of the leaves because of the sun lighting the hairs at the borders of the young leaves. Not a day earlier, first of may :). This year two weeks earlier, first time.

As most of the plants & trees: this year the siver lines where at least 2 weeks earlier at surroundings of .

Azalea mollis already 2 weeks full orange.

Akebia quinata at de backdoor pergola smells wonderful when you come home late, Rhododendron Cunningham's White next to the letterbox full flowers. Special spring this year.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, at 2014-04-18 20:21:54, said:
In southern England, this has been the earliest spring since I first started noting the times trees come into flower (about thirty years ago): about 15 days ahead of the 'average', though the average for the last decade is probably a week ahead of the average in the 1980s. (And yet the spring of 2013 was one of the latest and coldest.) This has also been the first winter in my home-town of Hastings, on the south coast, when there have been no air-frosts at all. The very wet and windy weather has damaged many trees, but of the 1000 or so nationally-important trees I've revisited so far this year as part of my ongoing updates of the Tree Register records, not one has been lost.

RedRob, at 2014-04-19 16:21:23, said:
Hello Owen, not been so lucky, two of the champion trees that I measured previously have been damaged and lost some growth. One looked as if it had been hit by a falling tree and is now in danger of toppling into the river, undermined by this winter's heavy rain.

Scholem Alejchem, at 2014-04-19 10:49:20, said:
RedRob, at 2014-04-19 16:18:43, said:
Magnificent, only one word needed. The Grove of Titans is a spectacular place. The way that dead foliage gathers and piles up the base and then ferns grow is also quite something.

Rayn, at 2014-04-10 10:53:22, said:
My guess is that some kind of poplar, but I can't say for sure.

Maarten Windemuller, at 2014-04-10 20:31:12, said:
Hei Rayn,

Could it be Grey Alder (Alnus incana)? Maybe you can make some pictures from details like twigs with buds.

Best regards,


Rayn, at 2014-04-10 22:07:46, said:
I'll return later in spring and try to get some closeups, one problem is that the first twigs is at least 10 meters or so up but maybe I can find some cracked twig or fallen leaf by then, thank you for your answer.

Rayn, at 2014-04-19 10:15:03, said:
No leafs yet, but i couldn't see any of the cones or pendants typical for grey alder. I did some research, and they are mentioned before but only as "populus other than tremoloides". I missed one with the girth of 448 cm, which was kind of clumsy. Anyway in Finland it seems kind of common with a Sibirian type called Populus Laurifolia (Laurel-leaf poplar) and a hybrid called Populus Petrowskiana (Petrowskiana poplar) which resembles the ones I found.

We'll see when the leafs come.

Historically it is very strange that a Russian poplar is planted in the early 1800's as Sweden lost Finland to Russia 1809 and the relationships where probably not the best.

Conifers, at 2014-04-18 19:42:36, said:
Do you have a close-up of the foliage (and cones if present), please?
JUAN ALBERT PORCAR, at 2014-04-19 07:27:29, said:

Chamaecyparis funebris (ciprés fúnebre)

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, at 2013-11-15 17:55:00, said:
The historic heights for this tree seem to show the limitations of both hypsometers and lasers. 33m is optimistic, aiming at branches which are arching slightly towards the observer. 27m is much too low, due to the laser hitting low twigs on the near side (the top of a tree with a crown as rounded as this is completely hidden, even from a distance, in summer. Having measured it several times (with hypsometer) before it leafs out, I'm going to plump for 30.8m - though I can't really claim that degree of accuracy.
Jeroen Philippona, at 2013-11-16 00:43:03, edited at 2013-11-16 00:46:48, said:
Yes, I think with 31 m you are near the true height of this tree. My 33 m measurement in 2007 with Suunto clinometer was not very accurate. Owen, you should add your 30.8 m measurement also in the system with the right date.

When you visit Kew next time you could measure it again with laser. I also think Wim B. did not hit the tallest branches.

Wim Brinkerink, at 2013-11-16 15:02:11, said:
What both of you are saying might well be true. It's not always easy to find the highest one and a mistake is easily made.
krossdal1, at 2014-03-30 10:43:24, said:
great tree
RedRob, at 2014-04-17 16:07:40, said:
Wouldn't an answer for this tree be to email Kew and ask them to meet you with one of those hydraulic extendable things which men stand in to get up to the crowns of trees to prune? It would give you a view over the top of the crown more and down to the base, that said some of the branches look low and could obscure the view of the laser from some windows.
Conifers, at 2014-04-17 19:14:24, said:
That sounds a good idea, offer them £1000 for the costs of using it, and I'm sure they'd do it ;-))
Wim Brinkerink, at 2014-04-17 19:17:58, said:
One mistake I made before 2014 is that I didn't add my own length to the measurement. So my measurement must at least be heightened with 1.80 meters.
RedRob, at 2014-04-18 16:30:00, said:
I regularly enjoy a walk around the Fountains Abbey estate and the National Trust often have their hydraulic container mounted on the back of a Land Rover out and pruning trees, I imagine that Kew will have something similar. Shouldn't be a difficult job to email them to ask when they might be doing some pruning in that area. If it is to confirm a champion tree they possibly would be quite obliging.
Jeroen Philippona, at 2014-04-18 20:57:31, said:
I am sure that it is not that difficult to measure the height of this tree, you just have to get far enough to see the real top: from the north there is an open view from over 100 m to the tree, the top can be seen easily from there.

Conifers, at 2014-04-18 19:40:09, said:
Foliage characters identify readily as Thuja plicata

Tim, at 2014-04-18 08:35:30, said:
Incredible Rainer, that you keep finding such great trees and manage to get nice sunny spring photos of them.

Keep up the good work,


Rainer Lippert, at 2014-04-18 15:58:11, said:
Hallo Tim,

danke für das Lob. Ich will mich auch weiterhin bemühen ;-)

Viele Grüße,


Wim Brinkerink, at 2014-03-21 21:14:10, said:
Wie wil mij vertellen wat ze vinden van de monumentaliteit van deze boom ?Ik ben zeer nieuwsgierig? Geen sparende antwoorden svp. Zeg gewoon wat je vindt. Al vind je het helemaal niks, maakt mij niet uit.
Conifers, at 2014-03-21 23:09:07, said:
Hi Wim - it looks to be a good specimen for its species (if I am right with it being Malus sylvestris!), above average but not exceptional in size or location; if rating it, I guess I would give it around 3.75 or 4 on MT's rating system.
Martin Tijdgat, at 2014-03-22 07:08:28, said:
Hai Wim and Conifers,

Malus sylvestris checks out with it's overal treeform, bark, flower and leaf. It is a beautiful old tree and belongs in MT as I see it.

Greetings, Martin

Wim Brinkerink, at 2014-03-22 10:11:07, said:
Thank you fot your opinion There is also somebody who speaks in numbers. Probably a bit shy person
Martin Tijdgat, at 2014-03-22 12:44:04, said:

Ik geef foto's een waardering als fotokwaliteit en de mate waarin de boom mijn bewondering, verwondering of andere emotie oproept. Dat is meer bepalend dan de maten (geen Miss World verkiezing).

Veel plezier trouwens volgende week met de fotocursus van Hans Clausing in de Leidse Hortus.


Wim Brinkerink, at 2014-03-22 12:50:59, said:
Hi Martin,

Dat is ook mijn lijn. Daarnaast Geef ik niet stelselmatig allerlei foto's die ik lager waardeer dan 3 een cijfer. Dat is zo flauw en irritant. Maar ja, kennelijk heeft de betreffende figuur daar veel behoefte aan want hij doet het vaak. Hier ook weer. Ik snap niet waarom je één van deze foto's een 2,5 moet geven. Het is niet zo dat ik me daardoor gekwetst voel. Eigenlijk interesseert het me niet zo veel. Ik vind het plaatje wel mooi, zo van die frisse voorjaarsbloesem, maar dat hoeft niemand met me eens te zijn. Ik vind het alleen raadselachtig en ik begrijp graag alles. (Ik was nou eenmaal een controlfreak in mijn werkzame leven)


TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, at 2014-03-30 17:21:09, said:
From your photo, Wim, I'm fairly confident this is Malus hupehensis, a species from China and Japan introduced (to Britain) around 1901. It is one of the largest-growing Malus, as well as one of the most beautiful.
Leo Goudzwaard, at 2014-03-30 18:05:50, said:
Hello Owen,Wim and others

M. hupehensis could be right, or M. baccata. Both species have pure white flowers. They differ in fruits, but from the image of the flowering tree it is difficult to say. M. baccata is more common than M. hupehensis in the Netherlands. Flowers of M. sylvestris are not white, so it is certainly not M. sylvestris. I agree in changing the species in M. hupehensis.

Wim Brinkerink, at 2014-03-30 19:02:23, edited at 2014-03-30 19:23:51, said:
Thank you all for the intrest. With your comment in mind I will try to give additional information.I'm not at all surprised if this is a special tree. I talked to some people in the neighbourhoud, they keep being attracted to it's beauty. Besides The Clingendael estate is a very special place. During centuries is was habitated by people that made a difference in history. Up till now it is habitated by a scientific elaborate institute that studies international relations.

Wim Brinkerink, at 2014-04-05 19:03:43, said:
Hi all,

Today I visited this tree again and was very much surprised that it didn't show any flowers. Apparently it blooms only one time in two years?. Does this add information for you? Ik will upload some new pictures of the leaves and bark. Furthermore I saw a smaller similar tree next to it and another apparently the same some hundred metres furtheron.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, at 2014-04-06 16:32:58, said:
In England they bloom each year, but they are not the earliest to bloom (still in bud now). I find it difficult to tell M.hupehensis with confidence from M. baccata (or M. mandshurica which is the commonly grown form), but this tree's wide-spreading irregular habit and bark cracking into big scales with orange and pink tints are characteristic of M. hupehensis.
Wim Brinkerink, at 2014-04-18 15:36:56, said:
Hi all,

Today I again visited the Malus Hupehensis (t 16999) and to my pleasure I saw it is full of buds. Next week I will visit it again accompanied by Martin Tijdgat. For now I upload a picture of the bus.

Furthermore, apparently there was someone in the Hague who really liked these trees, I found another example in the West of the Hague on the Hyacinthweg. I will post it later on.

Libanoneik in Merwesteinpark
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Wim Brinkerink, at 2014-04-18 15:32:07, said:
Hallo Leo,

Zoals je hebt kunnen zien, heb ik de informatie over de bomen in het Merwesteinpark Dordrecht een beetje gesystematiseerd en toegankelijker gemaakt. Nou kom ik 2 metingen van jou tegen die ik niet kan plaatsen. 1. Je hebt een Libanoneik opgevoerd die er volgens de gegevens van de Stichting Merwestein park en mijn waarnemingen niet is. En 2 je hebt een meting voor een plataan toegevoegd. Kun je nog achterhalen voor welke dat is?


Wim Brinkerink


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