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wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 14:19:37, hat gesagt:
It is a five needled pine.

Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-23 12:28:37, hat gesagt:
Love this kind off fotograph. It shows the strenght of this tree and the use ( by children?). Thanks! Martin Tijdgat
wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 13:27:21, hat gesagt:
Hi, yes it is a popular tree for children and for family photos too.

Conifers, am 2014-11-23 00:23:34, hat gesagt:
A cultivar of Lawson's Cypress Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 01:10:10, hat gesagt:

You wouldn't know which one? It's been annoying me for a while now.

Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-23 09:12:04, hat gesagt:
This can be the slow growing cv. 'Columnaris'. Is known when this tree was planted?
wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 10:20:12, hat gesagt:
No known planting date, although there is a picture of it from 15-20 years ago and it hasn't grown too much since then.
Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-23 12:35:58, hat gesagt:
Looking at the other Lawson's cypresses in this park it is a full matured tree. I would say it is no longer a tree off undetermined species, but a Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Columnaris'

Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-22 22:43:05, hat gesagt:

Wat een mooie foto, kleur, bastpatroon en een toefje groen; alles klopt.

Marc Meyer, am 2014-11-23 09:43:35, hat gesagt:
Bedankt Martin!



Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-22 22:48:58, hat gesagt:
This looks to be a Abies koreana

Greetings, Martin Tijdgat

wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-22 23:39:16, hat gesagt:
Hello, thanks for this, I wasn't sure as the cones were at the very top of the tree.

Conifers, am 2014-11-23 00:27:51, hat gesagt:
Not quite right for Abies koreana, looks more like Abies × arnoldiana (hybrid between Abies koreana and Abies veitchii) to me.

Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-23 00:51:42, hat gesagt:

Thanks, that is a new one for me. How do you keep A. Koreana and A. X arnoldiana apart?

Conifers, am 2014-11-23 00:24:58, hat gesagt:
Nikko Fir Abies homolepis

GregorSamsa, am 2014-11-22 00:42:37, hat gesagt:
The person is approximately 1.80m tall.

Die Person ist ca. 1,80m groß.

Alberto Cuervo Flores, am 2014-11-22 10:44:53, hat gesagt:
I think it is "Populus Alba"
Conifers, am 2014-11-23 00:21:35, hat gesagt:
Agree, Populus alba

They set fire on one of the best oaks in Europe!
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Jeroen Pater, am 2014-11-19 08:25:38, geändert am 2014-11-19 08:32:54, hat gesagt:
I just got the news today from my friend Krzysztof Borkowski from Poland that Chrobry oak has set on fire:,149851.html

I hope it will survive, but the pictures look very bad.

It is very sad news. The Chrobry oak is one of the most impressive oak trees in Europe. Why are people doing this!?



Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-19 23:51:47, geändert am 2014-11-19 23:52:57, hat gesagt:
Indeed very sad and incredible that people do this. This is indeed one of the most impressive oaks I have ever visited.

Jeroen Philippona

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-20 08:13:10, hat gesagt:
I'm afraid I'm in despair with the human race!

The heat involved is likely to have cooked the sapwood and cambium layer, I am not hopeful it will survive. The Sherwood Oak in Nottinghamshire was also set on fire in the past, but it has survived.

Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-20 20:15:47, geändert am 2014-11-20 21:58:34, hat gesagt:
Jeroen Pater and I visited this oak at a day in November 1999. At the same day we also visited the oak Napoleon in Zabor, somewhat more to the north-east, wich had a girth of even 10.45 m and was the biggest circumferenced oak of Poland at that time. It was also hollow and a few years later this oak also was set on fire. It survived, but the burning was repeated after a few years and the oak died.

The biggest girthed tree of the Netherlands, a hollow Sweet Chestnut (see Kastanjedal ) also was set on fire several times, the last time in 2005 and till now has survived.

So I hope Chrobry will stay alive as well.


Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-20 21:12:06, hat gesagt:

die Eiche in Hornoldendorf (Außenmauer des Ritterguts) wurde vor zwei Jahren auch in Brand gesetzt. Letztes Jahr hat es noch so ausgesehen, als ob sie es wohl nicht überlebt. In diesem Jahr, als ich dort war, hat sich wieder recht viel grün gezeigt. Und zwar an Ästen, die noch 2013 kahl waren. Sie scheint sich also zu erholen. Vielleicht schafft es ja diese Eiche hier auch so wie die in Hornoldendorf. Hoffen wir also mal.

Viele Grüße,


KoutaR, am 2014-11-20 22:57:55, hat gesagt:
This may be a good reason not to publish record tree locations (though trees like the oak in question cannot be kept secret).

Jeroen Pater, am 2014-11-21 06:29:22, hat gesagt:
I don't think keeping trees a secret is a good idea. They give Chrobry a value of 4.300000 (I think) zlotty. That is a lot of money. If the Chrobry oak is that expensive, why did they not put smoke and heat detectors inside.

I think a better solution is to some how close the gabs of a hollow tree, so nothing that can burn can get in. It won't work with all hollow trees, but I think it will work with a lot of them. I think is is very hard to burn a tree that has a trunk with no gabs.


Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-21 07:47:16, hat gesagt:
Hello All

Yes Kouta I agree

Sadly keeping champion trees secret from the public is the only way to protect them from vandalism. But in this case the tree was so well known it was impossible. As I have said before, in the UK there are many rare plants, where location details are kept deliberately vague to ensure protection.

The recent climbing damage to the 66m Douglas fir in Scotland (not deliberate vandalism) I feel is a wake up call not to give exact location details for champion trees and giving the 'wider' general public this information is a risk to them. But recording and uploading them is perfectly acceptable on MT.

I hope those responsible are caught and prosecuted!

Lets hope the tree survives

Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-22 00:27:45, hat gesagt:
Indeed this tree was to famous to hide it from the public. But, the other very big oak in Poland, called Napoleon at Zabor, was not well known, in fact it was a rather secret tree standing at a lonely place to be found only by insiders along a small sand road. It was set on fire very probable by local young boys and I suppose this also was the case with the Chrobry oak, like with the "Kabouterboom", the big Sweet Chestnut in Holland.

So I think most of these hollow old trees are more at risk from local young people than from people from elsewere.


Andrew Weber, am 2014-11-22 13:13:13, geändert am 2014-11-22 13:27:23, hat gesagt:
Moreover, in Poland many big trees, especially oaks, were set on fire, not only the biggest. I have seen in 2014 a few oaks with girth ranging from 6,5 to 8 metres that also suffered an arson and they usually grew in remote places.. So the largest trees should be preserved rather by fence, because cameras could be stolen indeed.. And it is a matter of local government that trees are conserved or 'unwanted', like here, Chrześcijanin (the Christian) Oak in Poland: street.

All in all, I hope that miracle will happen and Chrobry will survive, but it is horrible that someone wants to destroy peaceful monumental trees..

Best regards,


RedRob, am 2014-11-21 18:09:18, hat gesagt:
The 42.5 metre Lime is superb, love the shape. The Chestnut almost looks like it is a weeping one. Any other tall trees here Owen, Sycamore, Sweet Chestnut, anything?

Have you been around here Stephen?

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-21 21:23:18, hat gesagt:
No. The only old (and tall) trees in the park here are the limes and sweet chestnuts. Common Lime also exceeds 40m nearby at Althorp and Castle Ashby parks - it likes the Jurassic limestone.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-22 11:22:24, hat gesagt:
Hi Rob

No I have not visited here, about 70 miles North of me. Most of the locations I know are from Oxon southwards.

There are also some big Limes near me too.

stoneleighabbey, am 2014-11-22 09:52:11, hat gesagt:
Beautiful Oak at Stoneleigh Abbey over 1000 years old

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-13 08:02:59, hat gesagt:
Hello Owen

Wow! This one escaped me on MT. I have been here several times and yes quite remarkable that trees of this size can be as big here as in Scotland or Wales, with only 900mm of rain! This tree may surpass the Douglas in Broadwood, Dunster?

Obviously the deeply weathered sandy brown earth soil type derived from the Lower Greensand has been a factor. A pity Southern England was not covered in Greensand as opposed to horrible chalk. There is something magical about this soil which I am interested in finding out about. Here in Oxon, Nuneham Courtenay also on Greensand grows big conifers with only 600mm of rain.

Big Western Hemlock too at Polecat.

I noticed the Sequoia had probably been hit by lightning above the cottage, presume this is the one Alan measured as 170' in his book? An overestimate perhaps?

Kind regards


TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-15 18:12:28, hat gesagt:
Greensand is indeed the best soil in south-east England for tree-growth, and so many good tree sites are concentrated on it despite the tiny proportion of the country which it covers. I think the secret is that the grains are coarse enough to allow easy root-penetration but fine enough to be water-retentive. Soils washed down the from the Old Red Sandstone (Welsh Marches etc) and from ancient Scottish sandstone have just the same qualities. So, presumably, do loess soils in the Netherlands where trees can also grow very tall (without the benefits of much side-shelter from high hills as we have in England). Chalk is also much better than heavy clay, which covers so much of lowland England.

I have no idea how tall the Polecat Copse trees will grow. They are in a superbly sheltered spot and the two tallest have continued to produce long leaders through the 14 years I've known them, though they've lost their leaders once or twice and some others in the same line now have rough, bushy tops (but are still growing). Given the right soil, and shelter from dehydrating winds, Douglas don't seem to be troubled by drought or high summer temperatures. I don't know the local conditions for the 65m tree in the Massif Central of France but I would assume that summers there are hotter and drier than in Surrey.

That said, I suspect drought-stress rather than lightning for the loss of the top of the Giant Sequoia opposite Angle Cottage. Lightning would have been more likely to strike the higher tree-tops of the bank to the west. In 1995 we had a very dry summer near my home in Hastings and many of the taller Giant Sequoias died back a few metres (and have now recovered but rounded off).

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-16 09:46:03, hat gesagt:
Hello Owen

Thanks. Yes I think the secret with Lower Greensand is the ability for trees to extract soil water much more easily due to the pores and matrix of the soil, coupled with a moderately acid ph and reasonable fertility. On a clay soil water holding capacity is obviously greater, but trees cannot extract it as well as on say Greensand due to the pores and soil matrix unfavorable for tree root growth and penetration. Subsequent capillary action of soil water through the soil is much better on Greensand. As it is a soft sandstone is must have weathered deeply as well. It also probably has no root depth restriction caused by an iron pan, which is frequent on acid sandy soils.

Ulmus and Quercus robur as an opposite example seems to love surface water gleys on clay vales.

It appears to me that Giant Sequoia much prefers sandy soils and the Bagshot Sand near my locality at Crowthorne and also at the Valley Gardens Near Windsor as you know grow big trees, despite only 600mm of rain, some 300mm less than at Polecat. Also Giant Sequoia and Douglas are adapted to grow on sandy well drained soils in their native habitat so it is no surprise.

The tree at Angle Cottage lost many metres due to crown dieback which I think is most likely lightning. Yes I have also seen Giant Sequoia die back due to drought, but I know that when lightning strikes Sequoias it often rarely leaves a scar on the trunk, possibly due to the insulation properties of the bark, however it sometimes does and I have seen trees blown apart in the most extreme examples. I know that Beech rarely leaves a scar and yet oak is badly affected. A difficult question and needs more research.

I know that the Massif Central is the wettest place in France with up to 2000mm, but one has to remember that with higher temperatures the evapotranspiration and summer soil moisture defict would be greater than at Polecat, so perhaps only the available rainfall/soil water there will be only slightly greater?

Windspeed is much less in Surrey than in Somerset, so perhaps they will grow to 60m+ at Polecat.



Conifers, am 2014-11-16 10:00:51, hat gesagt:
"Giant Sequoia ... and I have seen trees blown apart in the most extreme examples"

See for an example!

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-16 10:08:21, hat gesagt:
Thanks Conifers

BANG!!! Wow that is an example, I have seen oak trees like this also.

RedRob, am 2014-11-17 18:22:13, geändert am 2014-11-17 18:23:52, hat gesagt:
Only visited this location once, 2011 and wish that I had had the laser then. Thank you for registering this Owen, it needed to be on here.

Is the Sequoiadendron near the cottage, here called 'King Kong' still likely to be 51 metres which you measured, assessed it as a few years ago or will it have added some height? I remember looking at this tree from angles and it would have been difficult to see the top and bottom to measure it. The Coast Redwood in the photo above is one at the top of the hill near the old big house but there is a taller one I am sure, immediately on the hillside above the 51 metre 'King Kong' Seqy. I took photos on an old mobile phone and have not been able to get the photos off it as don't have Bluetooth on my laptop. They would be 1.5MP photos so may not be that great. Anyway, this Coast Redwood looked pretty tall, slim and surely 40 metres plus. There is/was also a conifer plantation just the west of the 59 metre Douglas Fir grove, if I remember Larch and Spruce, Sitka snd Norway, which looked pretty tall.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-18 19:48:11, hat gesagt:
Near Angle Cottage at Polecat Copse, the Sequoiadendron that died back around 2005 was the taller but slenderer of a pair. I had measured it at 48m in 2000 but may have underestimated - Alan's 170' c.1990 was presumably a bit too high. The fatter tree beside it (the one in 'Redwood World' has preserved its tip and had grown to 51m by 2011, but I can't guarantee how accurate this was either. I shall return with the laser in due course.

RedRob, am 2014-11-21 18:16:54, hat gesagt:
I was taken with how red the trunks were of the Douglas at Polecat, Sequoiadendron colour if not even more red, due to the drier air according to Owen.

Are the 44 metre Larches still there at the location in Surrey Owen?

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-21 21:18:42, hat gesagt:
I think 44m was Alan Mitchell's top height for the larches at Hascombe Hill in the 1980s. I visited in 2000 when I think I made one 43m. I plan to revisit sometime soon.

RedRob, am 2014-11-21 18:20:52, hat gesagt:
A beauty Rainer, meant the tree but you as well no doubt (laughs) Is this the tallest outside of the USA? With reading the TROBI records can remember alot of champion heights for trees and locations now but not Colorado Blue Spruce? Will have to check. Quite a few of c20 metres in my area.

Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-21 21:13:08, hat gesagt:
Hallo RedRob,

ja, ein schöner Baum ist das. Ob das der höchste außerhalb den USA ist, kann ich auch nicht sagen. Aber vielleicht bekommst du es ja heraus.

Viele Grüße,


TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-21 21:17:20, hat gesagt:
29m in Hampshire in 2006. This spruce prefers a cool continental climate.

RedRob, am 2014-11-21 18:06:02, geändert am 2014-11-21 18:06:35, hat gesagt:
Comparing this tree to this middle part of the Valley of the Seven Bridges

with a slightly larger girth, this Chestnut does not look 34 metres. Do you have any more recent recordings Owen?

RedRob, am 2014-11-21 18:11:40, geändert am 2014-11-21 18:13:33, hat gesagt:
Forgot to say Owen, someone that I know in Mansfield has a friend who works at the Thoresby Hall hotel and is going to check to see if that Sweet Chestnut is still there. Hope that he photographs it, haven't heard back yet.

ronkrabben, am 2014-11-21 15:22:45, hat gesagt:
De bomenspecialisten konden het niet laten..

ronkrabben, am 2014-11-21 13:48:25, hat gesagt:
De laatste loodjes van deze wel zeer oude boom, leeftijd 140 jaar

ronkrabben, am 2014-11-21 13:46:38, hat gesagt:
Omtrek aan de voet van de stam 7,45 meter, op borsthoogte 5,75 meter

Over deze site
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ronkrabben, am 2014-11-21 13:39:30, hat gesagt:
Woonplaatsen kloppen niet, er staat Groenlo, dit moet Oost Gelre zijn, Groenlo is onderdeel van Oost Gelre net als Lichtenvoorde en de kerkdorpen.

ps, waarom kan ik geen straat invoeren?

Tim, am 2014-11-20 19:22:32, hat gesagt:
Hallo Marc,

Ik krijg zin om op reis te gaan als ik dit zie :)



Marc Meyer, am 2014-11-21 09:12:41, hat gesagt:
Ja dat kan ik wel begrijpen... The call of the palm trees! ;-)

Another must visit in the future
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Rayn, am 2014-06-20 11:32:02, geändert am 2014-06-20 11:34:26, hat gesagt:
There is a majestic elm at Övraböke, Halmstad, Sweden, as reported by Lars G Andersson in 2011. He believes it to be a pollarded tree, now abandoned, with an impressive girth of 10,6 metres. Looks multistemmed but still quite a monumental specimen.

I hope to visit this location some day but it's a long trip for me so it's unknown when I get the opportunity. I thought I might share it with you if someone are in the neighbourhood for some reason...


Lars G Anderssons coordinates:'03.8%22N+12%C2%B054'13.7%22E/@56.9177737,12.9037396,195m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Can be found at

Maarten Windemuller, am 2014-06-21 10:35:32, geändert am 2014-06-22 13:14:57, hat gesagt:
Hei Rayn,

Good suggestion, thank you.

Few weeks ago on the way north, we were in Båstad for the "Suntelbuche" (Vresbok) in the Norrvikens trädgård. We passed Halmstad and the area were Övraböke is.

I found three Ulmus > 10 m girth on Trädportalen. One between Rumskilla and Bodnaryd which are both on my list for next week. It looks that the one near Eksjö is on private ground (Google Earth).

Don't know if I succeed in adding more trees om my list now, depends on more than my own intention. Let's see what happens. At least good to know so I can put them on my list anyway for future visits.

Kind regards, Maarten

Rayn, am 2014-06-22 12:40:00, hat gesagt:
Did you register the Suntelbuche/vresbok here?

Good luck in finding interesting trees on your journeys!

Best regards


Maarten Windemuller, am 2014-06-22 13:19:48, geändert am 2014-06-22 18:39:17, hat gesagt:
Hei Rayn,

Not yet, coming soon. 2013 we visited two in Northern Ireland and 2009 one in Germany (MT 13135). Hannover (MT 3409) is on the list. See also Suntelbuche on de.wikipedia site.

Best whishes, Maarten

Maarten Windemuller, am 2014-11-20 23:14:31, geändert am 2014-11-20 23:21:21, hat gesagt:

I see some of the trees you registered are near Gävle. Is it possible you maybe register the apple tree when you come in that area? I read the tree is still standing and 24/7 watched.

There is also facebook page: where I can follow this case and find sometimes links to newsfacts like this one.

Kind regards,


ReforestamosMexico1, am 2014-11-20 16:34:03, hat gesagt:

To Whom It May Concern

I am contacting you since at Reforestamos Mexico we deeply admire your work and commitment to the protection of the environment. Monumental trees is a great source of inspiration for Reforestamos Mexico and we would be extremely pleased if you would accept our offer to collaborate.

Reforestamos Mexico is a Mexican organization completely devoted to the protection of the forests, as natural natural treasure and cornerstone of national development. We believe that the future of our society is intimately linked to the survival of the forests. Particularly, we conceive forests a key promoter of economic growth, not only supplying goods and guaranteeing biodiversity, but also offering great opportunities for local communities and people that live within the forest. This is why we are engaged no only with the protection of woods, but also with the promotion of a new approach to natural resources and sustainable development that can encompass the environmental, social, political and economic dimensions.

We feel that Reforestamos Mexico and Monumental Trees share the same values, interests and missions. In fact, at Reforestamos Mexico we also have a project completely focused on the protection of majestic trees. This program aims at raising awareness on the importance of those trees for our country. Hence, we think that a synergy with you could enhance our actions. For this reason, we propose to mutually advertise our projects through websites and social networks of both Reforestamos Mexico and Monumental Trees, so that our common goal can be better and widely achieved.

I hope this exciting opportunity interests you.

I look forward to hearing your comments.

Thank you for your time and consideration.


Eik in Ouffet groet David
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David van Iersel, am 2014-11-19 20:22:50, hat gesagt:

Han van Meegeren, am 2014-11-19 21:40:22, hat gesagt:

Ik heb het aangepast.

Gr van Han

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-11-19 16:41:16, hat gesagt:
Die Eucalyptussen zijn prachtig in Spanje. Jammer dat er fotografisch weinig eer valt te behalen met die vracht aan auto's er omheen.

turtle63, am 2014-11-18 08:40:26, hat gesagt:
This is from a Postcard of my G.Grandmothers of this tree.

I am guessing it is from early 1905-1911 as this seems to be the time frame for these Postcards.

Looks pretty impressive even then.

I am pleased to see it is still existing after a Google search.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-18 19:57:54, hat gesagt:
Thanks for adding this old picture.

I've added a measurement (from Elwes and Henry's book) from this same period and a few other historic measurements from the Tree Register, which show the tree growing away steadily. The growth-rate rather undermines the story that this tree dates right back to Bishop Gunning in the later 17th century, though it is possible that a heat-loving species would actually be adding girth faster today than in the 'little Ice Age'. (The two most recent girth measurements are misleading - I'm sure it's not started to grow that fast!)

turtle63, am 2014-11-18 23:24:52, hat gesagt:
Thank you for that, I had a look and it looks like it's slowed down growing has it. It has lost some off the top too?

Looking at my Postcard it has lost some big branches off it as well.

I guess it has done well to survive this long, wonder how old it will get.

RedRob, am 2014-11-12 16:49:27, hat gesagt:
This is a shame, B&I and European champion now ex champion. Did you put a message in Discussion about this Owen, I must have missed it if you did? Perhaps the top fell much more recently and the fallen wood was taken as firewood? A relative lived in Surrey and they had an open fire and used to go out regularly collecting firewood in the local woods, often taking a saw. With the high price of energy and fuel more and more people have been doing this.

RedRob, am 2014-11-12 16:52:29, hat gesagt:
Busbridge Lakes

This one takes over as the tallest, did you take any photos of it Owen?

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-15 18:14:07, hat gesagt:
No, I visited Busbridge Lakes in pre-laser, pre-camera days and used a hypsometer made of flint. I must return. I'm moderately confident it is indeed 38 - 39m, if still intact.

RedRob, am 2014-11-17 18:33:44, hat gesagt:
Hello Owen, looking forward to seeing the tree if it is still there and 38/39 metres. What is the next tallest after that, 36 metres I saw when checking on the Register. The trees in the location at Southwell, Nottinghamshire reported by Richard Goodrich were not 37 metres, 31 metres was the tallest in that location that I recorded with the laser and I could visibly see that it was the tallest. I didn't spot the reported 31 metre Hornbeams at the roadside but they will not be 31 metres if they are as the 31 metre Chestnut stood up higher than the other trees in the group. They could be perhaps 27 or 28 metres if they are there.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-18 19:43:27, hat gesagt:
Yes, two 36m trees at Boughton House (Northants) this summer, one of which I added to this site. We can discout the old Humberside records.

Conifers in Devon
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RedRob, am 2014-11-17 18:27:55, hat gesagt:

Owen, 'Warhorse' was shown on BBC1 last night and in the opening sequences on the moors of Dartmoor, in the distance was a reservoir with some what looked like very tall dark conifer outlines in several places on the banks. I have checked and it was filmed at Burrator Reservoir. Have any tall trees been recorded here? The trees in the Geograph link look like Douglas Fir perhaps?

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-18 08:01:29, hat gesagt:
Hello Rob

I know that many larch here were infected with Phytophora ramrorum and had to be felled for bio security measures. Douglas though is fairly resistant unless under very heavy pressure from spores.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-18 19:42:16, hat gesagt:
I did walk through the woods around the Burrator Reservoir in 2006. There was a Sitka Spruce plantation with trees reaching 40m. I didn't see any notable Douglas Firs. This is on the south-westerly, exposed side of Dartmoor, so I wouldn't expect anything to grow really tall - Sitka is probably the toughest in that situation.

Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-15 20:58:44, hat gesagt:

ist das nicht eher "Thuja plicata"?

Viele Grüße,


Conifers, am 2014-11-15 21:39:50, hat gesagt:
Yes, Thuja plicata.
Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-16 06:52:37, hat gesagt:
Hallo Conifers,

danke für die Bestätigung. Die Thuja daneben wird dann wohl auch "Thuja plicata" sein?

Viele Grüße,


Conifers, am 2014-11-16 13:54:54, hat gesagt:
Hallo Rainer,

Probably yes, T. occidentalis is almost never a large tree! Could you add a link to the tree you refer to, please ;-)

Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-16 15:56:04, hat gesagt:
Hallo Conifers,

hier ist der andere Baum: Riesen-Lebensbaum (Thuja plicata) '19892'

Viele Grüße,


Conifers, am 2014-11-16 16:38:59, hat gesagt:
Danke! Yes, Thuja plicata is correct.
Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-16 16:45:02, hat gesagt:
Danke auch für die Bestätigung. Dann handelt es sich bei beiden Bäumen um Thuja plicata. Und mal wieder ein falsch angebrachtes Schild ;-)

Viele Grüße,


RedRob, am 2014-11-17 18:11:33, hat gesagt:
Some very impressive trees at this location Rainer, one to visit for sure if anyone is ever this way.
Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-17 18:30:23, hat gesagt:
Hallo RedRob,

ja, da stehen einige interessante Bäume. Aktuell stehen dort von 6 Baumarten der jeweils höchste von Deutschland.

Viele Grüße,


RedRob, am 2014-11-17 18:08:21, geändert am 2014-11-17 18:09:59, hat gesagt:
Hello Jeroen, is this the Netherland's tallest tree now and likely to remain so or are there some possible challengers? From the distance photo the Douglas looks as if it has a really wide spread on the crown.

Scharlaken eik in de tuin van Villa
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Leo Goudzwaard, am 2014-11-13 11:35:45, hat gesagt:
wow, this oak tree has been grafted twice!, and I have never seen this before.

Has anyone noticed this before on large trees?

The old Quercus coccinea trees in the Netherlands are usually grafted once and quite high on the stam, on Q. rubra or Q. palustris.

Double grafting has been common practice with fruit trees as apple, pear and Cydonia.

In Dutch the method is called "tussenstam"-method.

Great finding and good picture, Nardo!

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-15 18:17:48, hat gesagt:
I've only seen double-grafting of Pyrus salicifolia 'Pendula' and on what in Britain were sold as 'Sheraton' cherries. (Roots Prunus avium, trunk P. serrula, crown P. serrulata cv. They don't live long.) In SE England many older Quercus coccinea are also grafted on Q. rubra and I had assumed they were 'Splendens', a clone distributed by the Knap Hill Nursery in Surrey. They have bigger axillary tufts under the leaf vein-joints, almost like Q. palustris. I don't know whether the Knap Hill Nursery also distributed to the near Continent or if there was a similar clone sold there as grafts.

Conifers, am 2014-11-16 13:57:46, hat gesagt:
I'm not sure it is double-grafted, it may just be a coincidence with the bark pattern on the burrs. The adjacent Scharlach-Eiche (Quercus coccinea) '19854' is clearly not double-grafted.

Conifers, am 2014-11-16 16:44:39, hat gesagt:
I just looked at the tree on Google Street View, which shows it well from the other side. Only one graft line!

Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-16 09:34:09, hat gesagt:
Hallo OKAnnette,

Leuk dat je een foto en gegevens van de Major Oak op deze website zet! Deze boom staat echter al enige jaren op een andere locatie op de website, nl hier: .

Het zou het beste zijn om je foto's en evt. andere gegevens op die pagina toe te voegen en de nieuwe pagina te verwijderen.

De omschrijving van een locatie is in Engeland vaak wat lastig, vandaar waarschijnlijk dat je de oudere pagina van de eik niet had gezien.

Vriendelijke groeten,

Jeroen Philippona

Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-16 09:33:58, hat gesagt:

ein toller Baum.

Handelt es sich hier um die gleiche Eiche:

Viele Grüße,


OKAnnette, am 2014-11-15 23:38:06, hat gesagt:
Foto niet van mij maar van Phil Lockwood.

Zie artikel


Indrukwekkend mooi. Daar wordt je stil van.....

Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-15 19:00:30, hat gesagt:
Schöne Stimmung.

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-11-14 17:41:14, hat gesagt:
Hallo Leo en/of Jeroen.

Ik ben vandaag opnieuw langs geweest ij deze machtige platanen. Dat heb ik wel vaker gedaan, maar ik vond het steeds niet de moeite waard om ze te meten. Toen ik me realiseerde dat de laatste meting uit 2009 stamt, dacht ik dat ik deze bomen de eerste de beste keer dat ik in Amsterdam zou zijn, moest opmeten. Vandaag heb ik dat gedaan. Tot mijn spijt zijn de resultaten weer niet corresponderend met jullie eerdere metingen. De boom met de lage zijtak Ahornblättrige Platane (Platanus × hispanica) '1874'is volgens mijn metingen dunner dan de ander Ahornblättrige Platane (Platanus × hispanica) '1876'. Ik wil graag de juiste maten opvoeren. Kan het zijn dat jij/jullie destijds de metingen hebben verwisseld?

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-11-14 19:43:41, hat gesagt:

Ik heb een aantal oude foto's uit 2012 verwijderd. Ik denk dat het beeld daardoor helderder wordt met de nieuwe geüp

loade foto's.

Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-14 20:05:01, geändert am 2014-11-14 20:12:05, hat gesagt:
Hoi Wim,

In juni 2006 waren Leo en ik met hoofdstedelijk bomenconsulent Hans Kaljee bij de bomen en hebben ze gemeten, zie de foto met mij. Die meting staat echter niet op MT. De meting uit 2009 is van Leo, ik was daar niet bij. Als jij nu een andere boom als dikste meet, kan het zijn dat Leo foto en meting heeft verwisseld maar ik maak vaker vreemde groeispurts mee bij bomen die moeilijk zijn te verklaren.

Heb je overigens je eigen foto's verwijderd?


Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-11-14 20:11:40, hat gesagt:
Hallo Jeroen,

Uiteraard heb ik alleen mijn eigen foto's verwijderd. Dank voor je opmerking over de groeispurt.


Leo Goudzwaard, am 2014-11-15 12:56:04, hat gesagt:
hallo Wim, ze zijn allebei gegroeid maar de een meer dan de ander, dat kan best hoor, bovendien zijn beide metingen niet op exact dezelfde plaats uitgevoerd, omdat er geen stippen op de stam staan.

Goed dat je ze gemeten hebt, dit levert op termijn veel groeigegevens van monumentale bomen op.


Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-15 08:23:31, hat gesagt:
What a tree!!

themoudie, am 2014-11-10 22:06:26, hat gesagt:
Aye RedRob,

If the tree in question is the 'hairy' one left of centre, then from the image I am guessing that it is most likely a Sitka spruce (Picea sitchensis) that has developed a vigorous mass of epicormic shoots. Whether this is due to an increase in side light striking the trunk since thinning operations or a genetic malfunction I cannot discern from the image. I also can't discern the cones from the image. Is it possible to obtain close up images of the bark, needles, shoots and cones, as this would ease diagnosis?

Regards, themoudie

RedRob, am 2014-11-11 18:00:33, geändert am 2014-11-11 18:03:38, hat gesagt:
Hello Moudie, welcome to the forum (haven't noticed your name previously) Hope that you don't mind my asking, are you in Scotland or living in Scotland?

A previous discussion about this it was thought that it was another Douglas Fir, it is the tree clothed to the ground just to left of centre. There is a large grove of c50 metre Sitka Spruce about 200 metres to the left of this photo. I was so busy looking at the emergent tree two to the right of this tree which the laser measured as c55 metres, I should have noted what this tree was? At first with the dense narrow habit thought that it might be a Picea Abies that I had missed, if so it would be 49/50 metres as the tree 4 tips to it's right, Douglas Fir was 49.8 metres. If you click in the photo and then when the little magnifying glass comes up click again you can enlarge the photo.

themoudie, am 2014-11-12 01:23:16, hat gesagt:
Aye RedRob,

Thank you for your welcome, and yes to both of your questions about Scotland. I have used the magnifying facility, but it produces a very pixelated image for me that doesn't aid diagnosis. I was thinking that it might be Serbian spruce (Picea omorika), but the apical growth rate I wouldn't have expected to keep pace with Sitka spruce (Picea sitchensis) or Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii). Hence my request for some detail, if poss.

Good health.

My regards, themoudie

RedRob, am 2014-11-12 17:34:09, hat gesagt:
Hello Moudie

Are you involved with forestry or arboriculture? Are you in the Highlands or low lands? Whatever, you must live in striking distance of some magnificent trees of all descriptions.

I have added what photos I have of this tree at Dalby, I was so busy with the Douglas that I didn't go up to it. It was only when I later looked at the photos that it stuck out with it's very narrow habit with foliage to the base and quite heavy crop of cones whilst the surrounding Douglas appear to have none or very few. I should also have noted what the small blue conifer was, the track next to these trees is/was one of the best viewing areas for the old Lombard RAC Rally when it was held here years ago now.

themoudie, am 2014-11-14 21:39:13, hat gesagt:
Aye RedRob,

Yes to both and Southern Highland boundary fault! ;¬) Aye, there are plenty to cuddle.

Thank you for posting the additional images of the trees in the vicinity of your first image. I can see why you are remarking upon the fully clothed tree and the shorter vigorous growing one with the blue green foliage. I suspect shelter, available nutrients and moisture along with the adjacency of the large trees are all contributing to it's form. It may even be the prodgeny of one of those older trees.

If I am fortunate to be in the vicinity of these trees I shall try to give them a look.

Regards, themoudie

Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-13 23:07:00, hat gesagt:
Hallo Waldfotograf,

Dierer Eiche war schon lange auf diese Website:

Ich versuche die beide anmeldungen zusammen zu bringen.


Jeroen Philippona

Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-13 23:06:49, geändert am 2014-11-13 23:07:37, hat gesagt:
Hallo Waldfotograf,

Dieser Eiche war schon lange auf diese Website: Kirche

Ich versuche die beide anmeldungen zusammen zu bringen.


Jeroe Philippona

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-13 08:14:16, hat gesagt:

Dreaded health and safety gone mad I expect. If a danger why not fence it off from the public and let nature take its course!


MrGreen, am 2014-11-06 20:57:08, hat gesagt:
Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-09 12:09:38, hat gesagt:
Hi Owen

Not far from me.

Do you know about the tree next to the River Hamble at Hambleden in Bucks. It may be bigger than this. It appears H. Chestnut loves chalk stream's in valleys.

The Hambleden tree was 7.22m @ 0.5m x an estimated 25m in height measured by me in January 2000.



TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-09 21:21:01, hat gesagt:
Yes, that could be even bigger by now. The record hadn't got through to the Tree Register. Is it in Hambleden village (ie the big house opposite the churchyard?
Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-10 08:01:38, hat gesagt:

The tree is in a private garden about 50m south west across the road from Hambleden Church, in the village centre. With its roots in the Hamble Brook.

The trunk is very rectangular in shape due to the 3 massive limbs dividing at about 3m up. Horse Chestnut grows quite quickly here and may date back to only 1800-1830 as the Georgian house/gardens date back to roughly then. I had the opportunity to measure it when I worked on the tree back in 2000.

Tree trunk is not easily seen from the road as it is hidden from view by a fence. I only live 5 miles from it so will take picture and upload to MT when I have time.



Conifers, am 2014-11-10 15:56:16, hat gesagt:
"The trunk is very rectangular in shape due to the 3 massive limbs dividing at about 3m up"

Given that the massive low branches influence the shape of the trunk at measuring height, shouldn't it be tagged as 'multistemmed'? I'd certainly think so.

RedRob, am 2014-11-11 18:11:34, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, looking forward to seeing photos of all your trees eventually. Are there any really tall Horse Chestnuts in your area, perhaps challenging Arundel's 39 metre tree?

I must ask about one lot of trees, the suspense is killing me (laughs) Did you manage to get to the Elan Valley Douglas Firs, how tall? I have done photo measurements on Google Maps using the telephone box as a reference (being a complete nerd and even googling various telephone boxes to ascertain dimensions, heights), c40 metres is what I got but there is obvious distortion and fore-shortening on Google Maps cameras, for example the Waterloo Grove looks nothing from the road.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-12 08:03:24, hat gesagt:
Hello Conifers

The tree has a very oval, almost elliptical trunk shape, but has a clear stem of 3m before dividing into 3 massive limbs. The quoted girth measurement @0.5m was the 'narrowest point' of the trunk and measuring any higher up the trunk, one would encounter buttressing and reaction wood. This would vastly inflate any girth measurement.

Kind Regards


Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-12 08:11:42, hat gesagt:
Hello Rob

No need to measure anymore phone boxes! The Douglas in question I estimate was about 50m, nice trees of 90 years old, but nothing exceptional.

Some Horse Chestnuts could be 33-35m, in this chalk river valley where conditions appear optimum. However the leaf miner and bleeding canker is sadly having an effect on their health and future growth. Has the leaf miner reached you up in Yorkshire yet?

Having trouble with uploading pictures to my PC off my phone but hopefully You will see them soon!


Conifers, am 2014-11-12 08:31:19, hat gesagt:
Hi Stephen - Thanks!

Yes, Cameraria ohridella has even been up here in Northumbs for 3 years now, and is starting to get common. No doubt its natural predators will catch up with it soon; it doesn't seem to be a big problem. The bleeding canker is likely a worse problem, though so far at least, it is rare up here.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-12 08:48:07, hat gesagt:
Interesting conifers

Many Thanks

RedRob, am 2014-11-12 16:59:52, hat gesagt:
below Anne Boleyn's seat in the water gardens of the Skell V

This was or must have been a superb speciman originally, got the chop a year or so ago. Cannot remember what the diagnosis was for it, Conifers?

RedRob, am 2014-11-12 17:03:22, geändert am 2014-11-12 17:20:37, hat gesagt:
Forge Valley, East Ayton

I hadn't looked but hadn't realised that you had added this one Owen, I tried to take a distance photo of it but not very successfully as it is rather hemmed in.

Just added my photo for this one, not the small tree nearest the camera but the bi tree behind. Quite difficult to ascertain where or which was the tallest shoot but recorded just below 34 metres with the laser for what I could hit. The ground surrounding it seems to be well paddled and bare so not sure how this will affect the tree in the long run.

RedRob, am 2014-11-12 17:09:26, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, the Douglas at Elan certainly worth recording as current tallest recordest trees in mid/central Wales, Owen's 50 metre Grand Fir at Cefn Park near Cardiff being the tallest in South Wales.
RedRob, am 2014-11-12 17:12:19, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, the Douglas at Elan certainly worth recording as current tallest recordest trees in mid/central Wales, Owen's 50 metre Grand Fir at Cefn Park near Cardiff being the tallest in South Wales.
RedRob, am 2014-11-12 17:14:30, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, the Douglas at Elan certainly worth recording as current tallest recordest trees in mid/central Wales, Owen's 50 metre Grand Fir at Cefn Park near Cardiff being the tallest in South Wales.
RedRob, am 2014-11-12 17:15:42, hat gesagt:
Using Internet Explorer the site sticking tonight, just swapped to Mozilla and now not having the problem.
Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-13 08:11:46, hat gesagt:

Now I wished I had measured it. There must be taller trees in central Wales southwards?

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-13 08:09:30, hat gesagt:
Nice tree Rob

Amazing reaction wood where the tree forks to keep it all together.

themoudie, am 2014-11-10 22:24:16, hat gesagt:
Aye Bess,

Might I suggest that this tree is a Bigleaf Linden, Broadleaf Lime, Large-leaf Lime, Large-leaved Linden (Tilia platyphyllos)? An alternative might be the Common Lime or Kaiser Linden (Tilia × europaea), but I think that the leaves on your 'Unknown' tree appear larger than those of the hybrid and the Small leaved lime (Tilia cordata). I like the image, promoting tree 'cuddling'. ;¬)

My regards, themoudie

Conifers, am 2014-11-10 23:53:30, hat gesagt:
Common Lime for me.
Leo Goudzwaard, am 2014-11-11 08:28:51, hat gesagt:
T. x europaea; the leaves are large probably due to regrowth after pruning one or more years ago
Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-11 14:14:32, hat gesagt:
Hai Bess en collega's,

Ook ik herken eerder een Tilia x europaea in dan een Tilia platyphyllos.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin Tijdgat

themoudie, am 2014-11-12 01:13:30, hat gesagt:
Morning All,

Local knowledge goes for (Tilia × europaea), so be it. ;¬)

Good health.

My regards, themoudie

Bess, am 2014-11-12 22:01:09, hat gesagt:
Thanks all of you for the Lime-knowledge!

and yess… I do have tree cuddling friends! :-)

RedRob, am 2014-11-11 18:32:28, geändert am 2014-11-11 18:34:21, hat gesagt:
The site webpage link on the Elm conversation mentioned that Deodars could be 250 feet in their native habitat, surely there be some taller specimans than this somewhere in Europe, Germany, France (Sisley?) Would love to see some 50 metre specimans in Europe, likely?

I have just forgotten to update this tree, I measured it again in September (2014) and I could visibly see that the top was flatter, certainly when compared to my photos from 2013. I am pretty certain that it has lost it's top most branch, must have been in the severe winds of last winter as I couldn't get this height for it. Will look in my notes and update with new height which I just cannot recall exactly offhand.

Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-11 22:03:56, hat gesagt:
I doubt if there are Deodars over 40 m in Europe, there seem to be no very old plantations of them.

In 1981 I have been in one of the locations with tall Deodar Cedars in the Indian Himalayas, in Manali. Probably those were taller than 40 m, but from my remembrance (I did not have any height measurement instrument at that time) I doubt if they were a lot above 50 m. Alas till now nobody seems to have measured them with reliable methods. Kouta and I once mailed that it would be nice to go there and to other locations in the Himalayas, but till now we did not make real plans.


RedRob, am 2014-11-12 17:43:07, hat gesagt:
Hello Jeroen, lets hope that there are some giant specimans hidden somewhere and yet to be found? Perhaps Sisley has the best chance of finding some in hidden gullies somewhere in central France.

I have updated the measurement for this one, now 37.8-38 metres MT standard, 37.6 to the high side Tree Register standard. Will have to check if this is now still the tallest in B&I?

RedwoodMike, am 2014-11-12 11:03:52, hat gesagt:
Nice! This tree is called "El Viejo Del Norte".

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-09-29 15:48:19, hat gesagt:
Very nice picture
Frank Gyssling, am 2014-11-06 17:50:38, hat gesagt:
Sehr schöne Aufnahme. Ich hätte die linke Seite noch etwas beschnitten (Luftkabel).Damit würde auch die Sonne aus dem Zentrum rücken.

viele Grüße Frank

derWaldfotograf, am 2014-11-12 10:16:12, hat gesagt:
Hallo Frank, Hallo Wim,

Danke für eure positiven Kommentare.

Eigentlich gehört der Baum auf die rechte Seite des Bildes.

Das war aber leider vom Standort aus nicht machbar. Darum meine Entscheidung das Bild so wie gesehen zu gestalten.

Ich wollte unbedingt den ganzen Baum in seiner Schönheit zeigen.

Ps. Antworten kann ich leider nur auf Deutsch.



Conifers, am 2014-11-09 09:35:52, hat gesagt:
Any information on why it died? Too much building in the root zone would be my guess.
Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-09 09:47:03, hat gesagt:
Hallo Conifers,

in der Mammutbaumcommunity,3329.msg66958.html#msg66958) haben wir auch schon über diesen Baum gesprochen. Anhand von Satellitenaufnahmen entstanden da in den letzten Jahren mehrere bauliche Veränderungen. Auf Bildern von 2009 sind Gebäude noch nicht zu sehen, die aktuell dort sind.

Viele Grüße,


Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-09 12:00:06, hat gesagt:

Possibly lightning or more likely Armilaria mellea or Heterobasidion annosum or good old Homo sapiens?

Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-10 21:24:54, hat gesagt:
Hallo Stephen,

also ich denke es hat mit den baulichen Veränderungen im Umfeld zu tun. Also mal wieder der Mensch daran schuld.

Viele Grüße,


Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-12 08:15:31, hat gesagt:
Hallo Rainer

Sorry I do not speak German! Can you translate so I can reply?


Conifers, am 2014-11-12 08:26:40, hat gesagt:
Hi Stephen,

Google translator says:

"So I think it has to do with the structural changes in the environment. So once again the man to blame"

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-12 08:44:03, hat gesagt:
Thanks for that Conifers

Giant Elms in the UK. The Magdalen College Huntingdon Elm at Oxford
Für jedermann sichtbar · permalink · en
Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-03 14:53:50, hat gesagt:
Hi All

I thought this might be of interest while browsing through a very interesting book published online about UK trees early on in the 20th century.

I came across a photograph (I had known about this tree before) of perhaps one of the largest broadleaved trees ever recorded in the UK. It was measured on the ground 142feet x 28feet round in 1911.

I'm interested in giant Elms, especially Ulmus procera (was tallest UK tree before Pacific Coast conifers and Abies alba overtook them.

Scroll through the pages and look under elm.

Pictures of big elms are so scarce now and only if I was 40 years older and had the hindsight to photograph them before they all perished apart from a few! What have we lost?



Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-04 08:32:06, hat gesagt:
Hello All

The Huntingdon Elm was measured by the well known UK tree expert of his time Elwes, contained 2787 cubic feet of timber which is 98 cubic metres, so well over 100 tonnes. This may not include the upper crown though, so perhaps 120m3 in total. The tree must have been severely decayed though.

Has anyone else seen this old photograph before?

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-04 18:50:40, hat gesagt:
Also in 'The Trees of Great Britain and Ireland' you'll find mention of a Wych Elm near Field in Staffordshire which was felled in 1636 and carefully measured as 120' tall and 16' thick at the kerf. I think we can safely say that elms were our biggest native trees.

Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-04 21:23:58, geändert am 2014-11-05 19:59:55, hat gesagt:
Those elms must have been great trees! I remember coming the first time in England and Wales in 1970 when I was 15, seeing everywere dead elms in the countryside. This has been a great loss for the British landscape.

Stephen and Owen: the Magdalen College Elm contained 2787 cubic feet of timber. You calculate this as 98 cubic metre. When a foot is 30.48 cm / 0.3048 metre than a cubic foot is 0,0283168466 cubic metre. Then 2787 cubic feet is 78,92 cubic metre. It could be that only good timber was calculated, not the smaller branches and the bark. The tree in total had perhaps more volume.

As you know Robert van Pelt calculated the large Sessile Oak of Croft Castle as having a total volume of 3800 cubic feet / 107.6 cubic metre and Majesty the Fredville Oak as 3300 cubic feet / 93.45 cubic metre, but these will both be the total volume of the tree including bark, all branches and (especially for Majesty) including the hollow trunk. So this is not existing volume of timber but the volume of the tree as a whole.

Probably measured in this way the Magdalen College Elm also would have had a volume of over 3000 or more cubic feet.

Would be nice to have a guy like Robert van Pelt to estimate volumes of some more British and European trees.


Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-05 07:39:04, hat gesagt:
Hello Owen

Yes I totally agree. Although tree sizes may have been over estimated back then.

There appears to be very few photographs of big elms on the internet, which is sad. If only I was alive before 1970 with a camera!

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-05 08:31:28, hat gesagt:
Hi Jeroen

Yes you are right, I entered in the conversion factor wrongly.

It could be that the old method of measurement was used, the Hoppus foot. There is 0.03605m3 to the Hoppus foot. This is still used in the UK for measuring hardwoods, sadly and not metric.

Yes a tragedy, the loss of Ulmus procera. I remember being in my pram at 2 years, sadly watching big elms being felled in 1975 in my village and ever since been addicted to trees!

Another tree not native to the UK and yet somehow some people accept these trees in the landscape and not other species such as conifers which I find rather stupid!

There are some old pictures of elms being felled which surely were as big as the biggest plane trees of today.

In September I visited the Croft Castle Sessile Oak. I remember standing beneath this tree in 1984.

I did an extensive study into the trees health/age. Sadly the National Trust has expanded the car park since 1984 allowing car parking in close proximity to the tree's root zone, which puts the tree's health at risk due to soil compaction. I have spent most of my career trying to educate people about this kind of thing, but sadly some people are ignorant.

The tree is generally in good health at present but it has extensive internal decay in the heartwood and is structurally compromised, thus at some future date perhaps in 50 years time it may fall. Nearly all oaks of this age (300 years) I have seen, have decay and have witnessed them snapping off at the base. Perhaps the only way to prevent this would be to reduce the upper crown, but this would be sad and perhaps letting nature take its course would be best, as surely we have to accept the tree has done wonderfully.

Presume B.V. Pelt just measured the trunk and main branches. If upper crown included it could perhaps amass more than 120m3? This would amount to 128 tonnes as there are 0.94m3 to the metric tonne for Oak which is fresh and green. But of course impossible to measure weight accurately if the tree has decay.

I will upload pictures and report for MT in due course.



Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-05 08:39:50, hat gesagt:
Hi Jeroen

Has anyone in Europe tried to estimate volume using Laser Technology's Criterion RD 1000 dendrometer? Perhaps some of the UK's conifers could be measured to estimate volume this way. Although climbing and measuring diameter at certain heights would be more accurate?

RedRob, am 2014-11-05 17:38:43, hat gesagt:
2 years old, that takes some beating Stephen! 2 years old in 1975, I was curious as to how old you were and this as given it away. Not my long list twin then. Don't think that I can remember as far back as that, remember how my interested first sparked, all the kids in my Primary school class were given an Oak sapling to look after. It was my second year in Primary so 1975 coincidently again. I cannot remember what happened to my little Oak? Hope that it was planted somewhere and is growing strong now. My interest was further engaged when my late Dad and myself began searching for a grove of very tall trees that he had seen but which he could not remember the location of. We drove right to within a few hundred metres of them from both directions but couldn't find them and turned back. Took us many outings and we finally dropped down over the edge of the ravine and found the redwoods at Hebden Wood. The trees were very, very tall to a little kid.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-05 19:52:02, hat gesagt:
I seem to remember discussing this with someone before and realising that Elwes and Henry were using Hoppus feet whenever they wrote 'feet of timber'. I believe that Bob van Pelt will have recorded even the minor branches of the Croft Castle oak with some precision, as that is what he does when surveying the giant American trees. But our big, young conifers are easier to measure as they only have light branches so far.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-06 08:14:00, hat gesagt:
Morning Rob and Owen

You too Rob have a nice childhood story to tell.

If Elm disease had not happened perhaps my interest in trees would have never occurred! That day in December 1975 obviously had left an imprint on my brain! One of my earliest memories was 100ft elms being felled across the main road into the pub car park whole, falling with an almighty bang (no health and safety then) There were 200 of them lining the road! The whole of the Vale of Oxford was full of them and a guy who I worked for said he spent years constantly felling dead Elms.

There was an interest in genetic engineering Ulmus procera inserting a gene to make it resistant, but there are 'anti's' that do not like this, so project halted! Trouble is there are about 2 clones of Ulmus procera so when the disease struck there was no resistance. Whereas Ulmus hollandica 'vegeta' (Huntingdon Elm) does have some resistance.

The bookmark for the online book shows some interesting trees of the past, nice beech etc.


The Huntingdon Elm at Silk wood Westonburt has now sadly died.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-06 08:19:41, hat gesagt:
Hi Owen

Measuring the upper crown must be a very complicated task for an oak. Has the Tree Register considered measuring girths at different heights to determine volume for some of the big conifers like the Grand Fir at Strone or Murthly etc. when doing tape drops?

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-06 08:23:32, hat gesagt:
Interesting site and pictures of Elms still alive in Kent


Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-06 08:46:29, hat gesagt:
This is what we have lost, so sad wish I had been there. What a beauty! R.I.P. Ulmus procera

Best picture on the net I have seen.


RedRob, am 2014-11-06 17:18:15, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, are there any large Elms of any type left in your territory? Up here there are very few although quite alot of shrubby specimans forming parts of hedges. The tallest that I have recorded is a 27.8-28 metre speciman at Ribston Hall. Cannot remember if I have added this to MT or not, will have to a check? I don't like adding just any tree as it wastes webspace for Tim but this one is worth adding probably because it is a County Champion for Yorkshire.

Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-06 20:59:50, geändert am 2014-11-06 21:09:50, hat gesagt:
Hi Stephen, Owen and Rob,

There is some hope that there will be still elms in the UK as well as other parts of Europe in future. In Amsterdam there is a very good program for preservation of elms, of wich there are around 70.000 in the city. Among these are still some beautiful old trees of Ulmus x hollandica 'Belgica', but as far as I know there are no large U. procera in Amsterdam. Of U. hollandica 'Vegeta'(Huntingdon Elm) there are medium large trees but not as old as of 'Belgica'.

By the way: 2787 Hoppus Feet = 100,47 cubic metre, a lot more than with modern feet.

Stephen, I don't know anybody measuring volume in the way you ask. In the USA there are several persons who do, like Robert Leverett, Robert van Pelt, Steve Sillett and Michael Taylor.

Beside giant conifers in the Pacific Northwest they have measured the volume of a huge Live Oak (Quercus virginiana) as nearly 5000 cubic feet = 140 cubic metres and of a tall big Tulip Tree of 4200 cubic feet, by measuring nearly all branches by climbing and taping.

Best regards, Jeroen

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-07 08:18:50, hat gesagt:
Hi All

I think I will frame the above picture of that beautiful Elm and hang it on my wall! I am going to invent a time machine and return to 1960 with a good camera and 50 Kodak slide films!


Yes there are some survivors, very rare in The Chilterns. There was a Ulmus glabra of 26m x 1.3m which survived at least 3 phases of the dreaded DED. and finally died in 1993, I reported this to Alan Mitchell. Now there is the largest Ulmus glabra probably in the Chilterns about 25m tall with two trunks 60cm diameter still with no disease and strangely in the same valley an Ulmus procera 15m tall x 40cm which has somehow survived 2 bouts of disease and recovered! I do not know why? Just very lucky isolated trees?

Also a half hectare wood full of elms about 25m x 60cm unable to determine the species, but clearly very resistant to disease, Possibly a Ulmus carpinifolia clone or perhaps a rare Plot elm. There are just so many types.


Interesting about Elms in Holland I know they had an extensive breeding program. I am sure that Elm disease could be stopped by advances in breeding/genetics but there is no political will or money to do the research?

So the historic Elm at Oxford could have amounted to 100m3! The hybrid arose in Hinchinbrook Park in Huntingdon in 1760, so after 151 years the tree accumulated 100m3, which I find hard to believe. I know the rich alluvial floodplain soil around Oxford is fertile, but growth rate would surely be comparable with Abies grandis, Sequoia, Sequoiadendron! Perhaps the tree had everything it needed, as well as hybrid vigour. What do you think?



Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-07 08:25:50, hat gesagt:
Hi Jeroen

Perhaps volume measurement is another project for European trees although technically challenging. Certainly big conifers with little taper would be the easiest and would be interesting to see which ones were really the biggest, as we know measuring just height and diameter is possibly a inferior method of identifying the biggest.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-07 18:17:46, hat gesagt:
Elwes and Henry were confident that the Magdalene College elm was much older than the 1760 selection of the 'Huntingdon' clone and represented an independent wild hybrid.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-09 11:54:28, hat gesagt:
Hello Owen

Thanks for that, that makes sense of my query. I wonder if this clone is now extinct? Certainly a massive tree I would estimate it would take at least 250 years to amass 80-100m3 of wood. It was certainly in a very advanced state of decay, judging by the 1911 photograph.

Perhaps Black Italian Poplar could have approached these sizes, as I have seen some enormous trees in old photographs which had been sadly felled.



Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-10 21:58:41, hat gesagt:
Hi Stephen, Owen and Rob,

There are still breeding programs in the Netherlands for resistant elms, but indeed there is little money to do more research. Still there is a professional nursereyman in Holland breeding many resistant clones and in Amsterdam there is a good preservation / protection program for elms. Leo knows more about it, he is the co-author of a book on Elms in the Low Counties wich was published in 2009 (alas only in Dutch language). The other co-authors are Hans Heybroek, who did most off the research on breeding resistant elms and Hans Kaljee, who is the tree-consultant of the City of Amsterdam and among the most influential tree-people of the Netherlands.

About the Magdalene College elm: if it was much older than the first breeding of the Huntingdon clone (wich is given in the above book as 1746), was it sure it was a Huntingdon elm or just a hybrid of an unknown clone?

The biggest girthed hybrid elm in Holland is also of an unknown clone, see: Holländische Ulme (Ulmus × hollandica) '1929'

Tallest U. x hollandica in Holland are: Holländische Ulme (Ulmus × hollandica) '3450' and Oudemanhuispoort .

Considering measuring big conifers: Tim Bekaert describes a method here:

About the largest European trees: you probably know we estimated the Ivenack Oak as having 140 cubic metre total wood volume and the Trsteno Oriental Plane as 150 - 175 cubic metre.

Some Giant Sequoias will have surpassed 100 m3 and in the near future will be the largest trees of Europe.

What will be the total volume of the big Abies alba in Ardkinglas as well as the largest Cedrus libanii and Sweet Chestnuts I don't know, but probably also around or above 100 cubes.

Regards, Jeroen

RedRob, am 2014-11-11 17:51:48, hat gesagt:
Hello Jeroen, very fine Elms.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-12 08:39:46, hat gesagt:
Hi Jeroen

Very interesting about the Elms in Holland. There was an attempt to genetically engineer Ulmus procera so it would hopefully be resistant and was undertaken at Abertay University in Scotland.

Ulmus procera proved to be an ideal subject for this as it does not produce seed and is sterile, so there was no chance of it breeding with other Elms with its changed genetics. However there are anti's in this country who did not like the idea of genetically modified trees (sadly a lot of ignorance here in my opinion), so sadly the project did to proceed to the next phase of testing the resistance in the field. However I believe it could still be done if there is the will!

A French Study has shown that none of the Common Elms in Europe have total resistance to the disease, although some are more resistant than others, Huntingdon Elm being one of them.

A recent statistical analysis of the spread of Elm disease has shown nothing could be done to stop it after the import of 'Rock Elm' logs from Canada in the late 1960's, into the ports of the UK, once it was established in the countryside.

Yes Giant Sequoia will be the biggest conifer, but London Plane will surely be largest broadleaf. The trees at Ely, Cambridgeshire and Lydney Park could be 80-100m3 perhaps as big as the tree at Croft Castle?

Also I am worried that climate change is going to seriously retard tree growth in South and Eastern England due to a predicted drop in summer rainfall during the growing season, in the next 100 years. However Northwest UK should become more productive for tree growth unless there is another disease.



RedRob, am 2014-11-05 17:41:59, hat gesagt:
Wow, this is some tree! Scholem, is it possible to officially record the height with a laser? Do you have any more photos, some with some human figures or something for context?

Conifers, am 2014-11-05 19:24:33, hat gesagt:
Hmmm . . . that tree doesn't look anything like 33 m to me; at a guess, you can knock at least 10 m (and probably 15 m) off from that. The narrow single-lane driveway beside it gives a fair estimate of scale.

RedRob, am 2014-11-06 17:54:30, hat gesagt:
Hello Conifers, is the lane a particularly narrow one, it is single track yes but how wide? Using the photo technique, the road is 1cm to the tree 13cm.

8 foot road gives a tree 104 feet tall, 31.7 metres

7 foot 91 feet tall 27.7 metres

6 foot 78 feet tall 23.7 metres

I think a narrow track lane for vehicles which this is from the whiter marks where the tyres run will be 6 feet at least.

Frank, am 2014-11-06 18:23:54, hat gesagt:
Scholem noted in the German description that the power pole next to the tree is 11 metres high. I would give the tree 27-30 metres as well. It has a wide crown, which makes it look less high.

Conifers, am 2014-11-06 20:53:24, hat gesagt:
Problem is, I don't think either method is giving a reliable estimate. The 11 m pole is some distance (about 25 m) beyond the tree, and down slope, so looks a lot less high by comparison. Also the bend in the access road where one can measure its photo-width is beyond the tree too, which inflates the comparative height of the tree. Measuring on google earth, the photo was taken from the adjacent main road 30 metres from the tree, with the bend in the access road 50 metres away, 20 m beyond the tree. And finally, as is usual with broad-crowned trees, the highest visible shoot is not the real top but a branch closer to the observer and so appears higher. It will need a laser device to get a real measurement. But my prediction would be in the 15-18 metres range, perhaps 20 m at most.

RedRob, am 2014-11-11 18:21:42, hat gesagt:
Yep, should have had a look on the Google map and have and Conifers is right, the tower is some distance beyond the tree from the position from where the photo is taken. Bringing it forward, the height is probably around 20 metres. Needs lasering to confirm if anyone is near this area?

spsp, am 2014-11-11 17:16:06, hat gesagt:

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-09 21:19:16, hat gesagt:
Pinus wallichiana?
Conifers, am 2014-11-09 23:31:36, hat gesagt:
Doesn't look like it to me, and I'd be doubtful if P. wallichiana is fully hardy in Salzburg. I'd like to see a close-up of the cones and foliage. My suspicions would be for Pinus × schwerinii, though can't rule out P. monticola, or other cultivated origin hybrids.
Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-10 22:13:08, hat gesagt:
I didn't look very carefully but indeed it doesn't look much like P. strobus.

I don't have good photos of the tree, the cones or foliage.

Alas a bit too far to make them now.

English Main page not working
Für jedermann sichtbar · permalink · en
Conifers, am 2014-11-04 09:25:57, hat gesagt:
The English main page is giving me an error message:

Warning: mysql_connect(): User monumentaltrees already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connections in /customers/0/1/c/ on line 72 User monumentaltrees already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connections

The rest of the site seems to be working OK, though.

Han van Meegeren, am 2014-11-04 11:48:46, hat gesagt:

That's not specific the problem with the englisch mainpage. Sometimes the Dutch one has the same errors. I think the server is sometimes overloaded. Perhaps Tim has an answer for this problem.

Greetings HAn

Conifers, am 2014-11-04 12:12:43, hat gesagt:

Conifers, am 2014-11-06 09:37:08, hat gesagt:
Still happening, I have had to bookmark one of the sub-pages like 'Discussion' to enter MT. This is OK for me as I know how to do this, but it will stop new visitors from finding out about the site, which is sad. Also the low number of recent additions suggests some established members are not being able to post at the moment. Hope it can be solved soon!

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-11-06 17:05:58, hat gesagt:
I'va had serious problems in signing in. And indeed I have scarcely been able to upload or even see what's happening. Furthermore I have met a problem in uploading. At the moment it prevents me from being all too active. I have bought a new computer. Its operating system is windows 8.1. This OS rotates the taken pictures in the vertical form if they are taken that way. The problem is that the photo's consequently appear horizontal....

I have asked Packard Bell for a solution. (Microsoft won't discuss this problem because I have a OEM version). Packard Bell says that this is a known problem in Windows 8 and they cannot do anything. I have the same problem with the database of "De Bomenstichting" .

Will be continued. I have asked a problem manager of a computer magazine for a solution.

Will be continued.

RedRob, am 2014-11-06 17:21:28, hat gesagt:
Funny, I am the archetypal 'problem user' on MT but not experiencing any of these problems. What I did find was using Mozilla Firefox is much better than Internet Explorer 9 which kept coming up with the message ' is not responding' 'Recover webpage?'

Han van Meegeren, am 2014-11-06 17:32:54, hat gesagt:
I've just send a mail to Tim about these problems.

Greets, Han

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-11-06 18:31:28, hat gesagt:
I have tried IE 11, Google chrome and Mozilla Firefox. The problems occured with all three browsers. But now the problems seem to be finished. ?

Tim, am 2014-11-07 08:24:20, hat gesagt:

I'm aware of these problems but I'm still thinking about decent solution.

The cause is that at certain moments there are a lot of Chinese visitors (likely all of them automated robots) from Chinese search engines like Baidu etc. These hammer the site each one creating a connection to the database and making some queries (e.g. to show the recent changes list) making my database overloaded.

I could simply block these, but this would prevent the site from popping up in Baidu search results (and the Baidu robots don't show this behaviour all the time), but that might be a solution for now. Other bots like the one from Google behave more nicely, spreading their requests in time. A better solution would be to make the querying lighter, by e.g. also caching the recent changes list so not every user has to build up this list independently.

The non availability is always a temporary issue that can happen at any moment (for Conifers by coincidence at the main page), usually when there are a lot of users active at the same time.

Maybe I'll block Chinese users for the moment, and work on a decent solution later. Currently my time for the site is consumed by work on the cultivar/variety editing possibilities.

Kind regards,


Conifers, am 2014-11-08 16:31:29, hat gesagt:
Thanks for checking, Tim!

While it would be very nice to get some trees from China, it hasn't happened yet. So I'd agree with blocking their robots (if feasible!), even if it does mean fewer potential 'real' Chinese visitors to the site.

Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-10 21:34:22, hat gesagt:

ich habe seit gestern Mittag keinen Zugriff mehr auf MT. Jetzt geht es auch nicht. Ich erhalte immer die oben genannte Fehlermeldung. Das ganze allerdings nur bei Firefox. Erst jetzt bin ich auf die Idee gekommen, mal den IE zu verwenden. Da geht MT, konnte so auch diese Diskussion finden.

Viele Grüße,


Veldiep in Gartrop, Hünxe
Für jedermann sichtbar · permalink · nl
Leo Goudzwaard, am 2014-11-04 09:39:14, hat gesagt:
hello Karlheinz, this great tree is an Ulmus laevis, cheers, Leo

Karlheinz, am 2014-11-04 18:52:35, hat gesagt:
Hi Leo, you could be right, the trunk with the many water veins looks like Ulmus laevis. But the leaves are different. I could compare directly with those of the 200 meters away Ulmus laevis '19794'. The leaves are thicker and solid, smoother the upper side, and the lower leaf surface shows the typical pattern of profiled Ulmus minor (it looks like But surely with the identification of the species I'm not. It would be good if you or someone else could check the tree on site!



Karlheinz, am 2014-11-06 20:55:01, hat gesagt:

please check out my additional photos of the leaves. I took a few home with me. The lower leaf surface shows a profiled or cracked pattern and I see silky hair tufts in the vein angles, focusing on the central vein. This is something I've only seen at Ulmus minor, is this also possible with Ulmus laevis?


Karlheinz, am 2014-11-07 02:04:08, hat gesagt:
refer to: "Bestimmungstabelle für Ulmen"

Leo Goudzwaard, am 2014-11-07 09:24:08, geändert am 2014-11-07 09:26:59, hat gesagt:
hello Karlheinz,

your added leaf pictures show U. minor, but the leaves at your tree pictures are typical U. laevis.

I have added a photo showing an enlarged part of one of your tree pictures combined with a part of your collected-leaves pictures.

These cannot be from the same tree, because at the left side there are U. leaves trees and on the right side U. minor leaves.

U. laevis has much wider leaves with long curved teeth at the edges

U. minor has narrower leaves with short teeth

If this was a test, I hope I have passed, cheers, Leo

Karlheinz, am 2014-11-07 10:18:43, hat gesagt:
I want to go there again and photograph leaves tomorrow. Is there still something else I should particularly look out for?

KoutaR, am 2014-11-07 11:17:27, hat gesagt:
Most importantly, the leaves from fast growing sprouts or coppice shoots are unusable for identification - they readily result in missidentification. The best leaves are the subdistal ones (next below from the leaves at the shoot tip) from the short shoots (Kurztriebe) in the crown, including the lowest branches of the crown. Never leaves from the shoots at the tree base.

Leo Goudzwaard, am 2014-11-07 15:18:33, hat gesagt:
you are right Kouta, but even from leaves from the treebase or epicormic shoots, I will be able to distinguish U. laevis (which is my favorite tree) from other U. species.

KoutaR, am 2014-11-07 15:29:01, hat gesagt:
Ok. I believe that YOU can do it.

Karlheinz, am 2014-11-10 15:55:44, hat gesagt:

einen Scherz habe ich mir nicht erlaubt und Verwechslungen oder falsche Zuordnung der Blatt-Fotos schließe ich aus. Auch ohne die Fotos erinnere ich mich daran, dass ich unter dem Baum neben den normalen Blättern zahlreiche dieser Feldulmen-ähnlichen Blätter gefunden habe. Sie hatten Nervengabelungen auch in der oberen Blatthälfte. Ich kannte dieses Unterscheidungsmerkmal und habe vor Ort sehr bewußt darauf geachtet.

Gestern war ich wieder in Gartrop, ich hatte aber leider keinen Zutritt zum Schlosspark. Über die Sprechanlage zur Hotelrezeption erhielt ich immer nur den Hinweis auf "Privatbesitz", zu weiteren Auskünften war man nicht bereit.

Ich kenne eine weitere Ulme, die als Flatterulme bekannt ist und wo ich zu Beginn der Laubfallzeit vor etwa einer Woche auch solche Feldulmen-ähnlichen Blätter fand: Flatterulme (Ulmus laevis) '19851' . Auch dort war ich gestern und habe Fotos gemacht. Die obere Kronenhälfte ist inzwischen völlig blattleer und unten rieselten die Blätter. Zu meinem Erstaunen konnte ich im dichten Laub unter dem Baum keine Blätter mit Nerven-Gabelungen in der oberen Blatthälfte mehr entdecken, nur noch normale Flatterulmenblätter.

Beide Bäume weisen ein übereinstimmendes Merkmal auf:

Durch baumpflegerische Eingriffe in der Vergangenheit wurde die Krone eingekürzt und an den Schnittstellen haben sich Büschel von Neuaustrieben entwickelt, welche nun die Kronenperipherie prägen.

Ich schliesse daraus:

Diese für Flatterulmen untypischen Blätter bilden sich an den Neuaustrieben oben in der Krone. Zu Beginn der Laubfallzeit sind das die ersten Blätter, die der Baum abwirft und die man dann unten auflesen kann. Später, wenn die große Masse der Blätter fällt, sieht man nur noch normal geformte Blätter.

Nach meiner Einschätzung ist das eine Flatterulme, ich habe das entsprechend geändert.

Was haltet ihr von dieser Theorie?



- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

here is my English translation:


a joke I'm not allowed and confusion or incorrect assignment of the leaf photos I exclude. Even without the photos I remember that I found under the tree in addition to normal leaves many of these field elm-like leaves. They had nerve forks in the upper half. I knew this distinctive feature and on site I have paid attention very consciously to it.

Yesterday I was back in Gartrop, but I had no access to the park. Over the intercom to the hotel reception I always received the reference to "private property", for other information they were not willing.

I know another elm, which is known as white elm and where I also found such field elm-like leaves at the beginning of leaf fall time, about a week ago: <Flatterulme (Ulmus laevis) '19851' . Even there I was yesterday and took pictures. The upper half of the crown is now completely empty from leaves and also below the leaves trickled strongly. To my amazement, in the dense foliage on the ground under the tree I could no longer find leaves with nerve forks in the upper half, only normal elm leaves.

Both trees have a matching feature:

By arboriculture interventions in the past, the crowns of both trees was shortened and the stumps have developed tufts of new sproutings, which now shape the crown periphery.

I conclude:

This for Ulmus laevis untypical leaves are formed at the sproutings in top of the shortened crown. At the beginning of leaf fall time these are the first leaves that the tree throws off and you can pick up from the ground. Later, when the large mass of leaves fall, you will find only normal shaped leaves.

In my estimation, this is a white elm, I have changed accordingly.

What do you think about this theory?



Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-11-09 08:45:40, hat gesagt:
Hi Rainer,

Interesting oak. Do you know if it has beeen a forest grown oak in the past and if it is known what height it had with the original crown?

Best regards, Jeroen

Rainer Lippert, am 2014-11-09 09:02:12, hat gesagt:
Hallo Jeroen,

ja, eine besondere Eiche ist das. Die Eiche ist laut Literatur geschützt im Wald aufgewachsen. Fröhlich gibt in "Wege zu alten Bäumen" aus dem Jahre 1992 eine Höhe von 25 m an. Im Jahre 2000 wurde die Krone bei Pflegemaßnahmen stark eingestutzt. 2011 wurde die Krone dann nochmals eingekürzt.

Viele Grüße,


Ericc, am 2014-11-08 00:15:30, hat gesagt:
This beautiful Sequoia is to be removed by the City of Fife for a developer funded road widening project.

Bert Veerman, am 2014-11-07 18:40:19, geändert am 2014-11-07 18:40:52, hat gesagt:
Dit bomen groepje heb ik inderdaad de plant leeftijd van geschat , het stond er al toen ik als kind zijnde bij mijn vader achterop de fiets mee ging en ik ben nu 68 jaar

JJVR, am 2014-11-06 19:55:11, hat gesagt:
Schitterend loof in alle kleuren.


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