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Stephen Verge, am 2014-09-16 07:26:04, hat gesagt:
Hi Rob

Wow at least 6 trees over 60m! How long are the leaders of these trees Rob? Any noticeable wind damage from last winter?

I saw these trees in the dark with the car headlights and kick myself for running out of time to see them last year, will have to return soon. Looks like the weather will change next week so may hold off holiday there, until another anticyclone arrives to ensure good weather in Wales.

Will be at Europe's largest forestry show on Sat in the Midlands so may look at impulse lasers and the new model out and may or may not be tempted! Trouble is that would I have the time to use it? 10 years ago definitely would.

Stephen



RedRob, am 2014-09-15 17:23:12, hat gesagt:
Hello Owen, this is/was the tree at the top of the stand where the path turns to the left, straight in front of you with Ivy on the trunk. I could only get 52 metres for this tree but I couldn't see the top at any point with a view of the base. Assessing from further down where I managed to see the tip, I think I will have missed about twenty feet off, every tree that I have measured in this stand is/was 60 metres so I will assign 60 metres for this one. It certainly was not 14 0r 15 metres taller then 52 metres.


RedRob, am 2014-09-15 17:05:44, hat gesagt:
Difficult measuring conditions on the slope in the upper part of the Waterloo Grove, difficult on many or most of the trees to see base and apex tip together. I did manage to measure three trees cleanly through gaps and this was the tallest. The others were also 60 metres. I didn't explore enough further up last year on my visit and thought that there may be a taller tree in the higher part of the stand but I think they will be all around this height in the higher and slightly more exposed part of the stand. The tree looks like just a trunk but the sun was shafting through the trees and I was photographing towards it.


RedRob, am 2014-09-04 16:23:53, hat gesagt:
Need abit of help with this one, more photos available if required. The trunk pattern didn't seem smooth enough for Abies Grandis, the foliage not flat enough and the shape not quite right for conventional Grandis that I have seen? What is this tree?

Conifers, am 2014-09-04 16:49:00, hat gesagt:
The bark looks OK to me for Abies grandis, it gets like this on mature trees. What foliage was it you looked at, if it was windblown upper crown foliage, then that's normal for the needles to be more assurgent.

RedRob, am 2014-09-04 17:14:59, hat gesagt:
Hello Conifers, the tree had lower branches sweeping down and I photographed the foliage close up which I have posted if you look at all the photos. Not seen any really big, old Grand Firs as close up as this so not seen the ribbed bark like this before. The terminal foliage on the shoot ends around the buds also seemed abit more rounded than other Grand Firs that I have seen but maybe this is with age as well, I suppose it is what you have seen yourself which you compare to.

Conifers, am 2014-09-04 18:27:52, hat gesagt:
Hi Rob,

Thanks! What the foliage does fit in that case is the interior subspecies Abies grandis subsp. idahoensis (from east of the Cascades crest); this has somewhat assurgent foliage throughout the crown, not just at the top of the tree. The only problem with this is that it is a smaller, slower-growing tree than coastal subsp. grandis, a 50 metre specimen would have to be ancient.

Abies grandis subsp. idahoensis grades into Abies concolor in the south of its area, including (in the southwest of its area) into Abies concolor subsp. lowiana, which is also a large, fairly vigorous tree (though not as vigorous as subsp. grandis). But it does perhaps offer a potential source location in the southern Cascades in Oregon.

It might be worth contacting the FC to see if they have planting records for the plot. A lot of the older plantings of Abies grandis in Britain are of the interior subspecies (being smaller, it was much cheaper to collect the seed!), before foresters discovered how much slower and poorer its growth was compared to coastal origins.


RedRob, am 2014-09-05 16:19:48, hat gesagt:
Hello Conifers, I had never heard of Idahoensis, learn something new every day. From reading the description it does describe these trees, the foliage just didn't seem flat enough for conventional Grand Fir (quote 'stongly flattened' from one site) and it seemed to taper around the buds and recurve more than the usual Grandis (you can see it in the photos) which I have seen myself albeit I won't have seen as many examples as people like Kouta, yourself, Owen etc. Any comments from anyone else, Owen, Kouta, Jeroen, Karlheinz?

RedRob, am 2014-09-05 16:48:19, hat gesagt:
Just uploaded a further foliage photo of this tree taken up tree. As said, still might be wrongs but it just didn't look fully right for Abies Grandis, the rounded tapering recurving needles around the terminal buds.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-09-06 07:48:01, hat gesagt:
Hi Red Rob and Conifers and all

I'm back after my busy summer!

Foliage is typical for Grand Fir east of the Cascades. Most seed imports into this country up to the 1960's were of this interior form. I remember seeing this tree last Sept, so 52m, yet another!!


RedRob, am 2014-09-08 16:09:29, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, welcome back, missed reading your posts. This does look like Idahoensis, this one wasn't even the tallest, that was 53 metres for the other one that I put on here the other day. Vyrnwy, cloud and mist was hanging over the lake and it may be fairly mild comparative here, would this mean that Idahoensis would possibly have more potential for growth here than east of the Cascades which I imagine is certainly colder in winter and drier?

Stephen Verge, am 2014-09-10 07:53:32, hat gesagt:
Rob

Most of Grand Fir in the UK before the 1960's came from just east of the crest of the Cascades, little came from the actual Pacific Coast so most of the oldest and tallest are probably of inferior growth rate, but likely to grow faster in UK. I was not aware this has been regarded a sub species, is this recent?

I may go on holiday later this month to find some more giants, have you been on holiday there too?

Stephen


RedRob, am 2014-09-10 16:05:18, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, are you going on holiday to the Pacific Northwest or to look for trees in this country? I was in North Wales and Powys last week but there are areas in central Wales that could have some tall trees if you want some ideas? The Elan Valley area, Alan Mitchell recorded 50 metre Douglas Firs there way back in 1979 I think it was. I have located some myself which I had hoped to visit but never made it down as far.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-09-10 20:38:46, hat gesagt:
Rob

Hope to go back to North Wales if the weather holds out later this month. Find some big trees and maybe pan for some gold if there is time!

Perhaps try to look at the Elan Valley on the way but its quite far from North Wales.

How is the tall Douglas in the Conwy Valley doing? I left too late one evening and only saw them in darkness with the headlights on!

Regards

Stephen


RedRob, am 2014-09-11 16:30:25, geändert am 2014-09-11 16:31:54, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, will be reporting on the Betws trees from this year's visit when I get around to it over the next few days.

Before I visited North Wales this year I spent a considerable time scouring the valleys of North Wales on Google Maps looking for dark shadows and long shadows from the satellite and then looking on Street View. Really don't think that there are any more really tall stands in the Snowdonia area, Coed Y Brenin, Conwy Valley, Vyrnwy, Aber Hirnant seem to be the places. I drove all over last week scanning various valleys in the Berwyns and up around Betws and didn't come across anything taller or anywhere near. I have been to the forests around Corris on a previous visit and the trees there are not exceptional. An area where there could be tall and unknown trees is central Wales, Elan Valley and further down, Twyi Forest and the forests near Llandridod Wells. Owen sent me the records but I cannot find them in my emails so I have just asked him again, Alan Mitchell recorded big Douglas Firs back in 1979 and if they have kept growing at a reasonable rate they could be pretty big now.


RedRob, am 2014-09-12 16:48:28, hat gesagt:
The estate at Llanwrthwl was called Glanrhos SN973641 Owen has informed me again.

https://maps.google.co.uk/ put Glanrhos estate into search. I have been up and down the lane and there is a group of tall conifers which look like Douglas Firs but they don't look super tall and are in an open, exposed position. Not sure if these will be the trees which Alan Mitchell recorded or not?

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2526900 This group in the Elan Valley is a group that I came across whilst searching, on Google Maps they do look pretty tall but there looks to be abit of distortion in the camera which may be fore-shortening them in height when viewed from the bridge. They are in the bottom of the valley so should be pretty sheltered. Stephen, if you do make it anywhere down this way in passing this group would be worth stopping at. I haver just been riding up and down roads in Tywi Forest and the A44 between Llanwrtyd and Abergwesyn and over towards Aberystwyth and had longer range views and the conifers look ordinary.


Stephen Verge, am 2014-09-13 09:24:31, hat gesagt:
Hi Rob

Elan valley looks interesting, it may be a bit far out to travel to North Wales, but I could do a detour.

Dyfi valley was an interesting place for big plantation grown conifers. Sadly as usual The FC felled the best stand of Hemlock about 10 years ago. With good soils and shelter the forest is very productive here.

It will be interesting to see how Dothistroma needle blight is progressing there in North Wales it was partly defoliating conifers and causing them to lose vigour.

Hope to make it back there if the weather remains good.

Stephen


RedRob, am 2014-09-13 16:49:48, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, I really don't like to hear the talk about needle drop, especially connected with some more trees that I have yet to post on.

I have been up the Dyfi Valley on Google Maps and there is large scale felling viewable. If you put 'Pantperthog' into Google Maps and travel about a quarter of a mile north on the A487, there is a line of tall trees that I think may be Douglas Fir. Look big but not massive but abit hard to truly judge on Google Maps as I have seen distortion on some views. These are the tallest that I can find in this area, beautiful countryside though, wonderful smooth roads (as they all appear to be down there compared to the potholed lot we have up in Yorkshire) sweeping through deep, wooded valleys. Visited King Arthur's labyrinth at Corris in 2006 and it was great countryside.

If you want a nice little B&B Stephen, I can recommend one near the north end of Lake Bala, a little gem with great food and incredibly reasonable. It provided a great, central base for my visit.


Stephen Verge, am 2014-09-14 10:44:59, hat gesagt:
Thanks Rob

Look forward to more posts on Welsh trees.

Stephen


Conifers, am 2014-09-14 22:38:42, hat gesagt:
Remember to change the species to Abies grandis ;-)


RedRob, am 2014-09-14 16:51:09, hat gesagt:
In a spot of bovver and need abit of help. Whilst looking up at the 60 metre Douglas Fir at Vyrnwy (next to ex 64 metre champ) I fired the laser off across the ravine to the group od spruces on the other side and this was the tallest. Came to a decision but just want to double check? Can it be identified from the blowing the photo up to see foliage and bark pattern?

Conifers, am 2014-09-14 22:38:00, hat gesagt:
Picea sitchensis


Han van Meegeren, am 2014-09-14 21:08:37, hat gesagt:
13-09-2014

Monumental trees at Powerscourt House
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RedRob, am 2014-09-14 16:58:21, hat gesagt:
I know that I have asked before but any chance of some photos being added to these records? There are some impressive trees listed here, I and I suspect others would love to see them?


RedRob, am 2014-09-14 16:24:07, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, the Welsh weather changed in a very short time and it was tippling down by the time that I took this photo but I think the Douglas Firs that you were referring to have been caught in this photo in the background. I stood up the hill on the road and looked back over to assess and the trees down near the road definitely physically looked the tallest when viewed from the horizontal up the road. The land rises up the valley and the trees near the road looked level with the higher trees, I suspect that they will be 51/52 metres, the tallest tree that I measured on the road definitely the tallest of it's line, dfinitely 54 metres but could be 55 metres.

RedRob, am 2014-09-14 16:54:43, hat gesagt:
Sorry Stephen, just re-read your post and it was you further up the hill and not the trees. You must have been in the same spot as I was if you were on the road.


Conifers, am 2014-09-14 16:13:43, hat gesagt:
Not Ulmus glabra - leaves too small and glossy; looks more like U. minor or perhaps U. × hollandica.
Rainer Lippert, am 2014-09-14 16:17:01, hat gesagt:
Hallo Conifers,

also mal wieder ein falsches Schild am Stamm. Hatten wir ja schon des öfteren. Ich ändere es mal in U. minor ab.

Danke und viele Grüße,

Rainer


RedRob, am 2014-09-13 16:55:19, hat gesagt:
Beautiful tree, how come some of the Norways remain narrow in shape and clothed with branches way down and yet others are very open and lose their lower branches? There are both types up in Yorkshire, they look quite different at times? Do they vary according to what area they originated from?

KoutaR, am 2014-09-13 18:33:32, hat gesagt:
I believe that the main reason, why this tree has foliage almost along the whole lenght, is that its one side gets plenty of light (the tree is standing at a creek). But branching patterns of Norway spruce also vary genetically, also within a single stand.

Stephen Verge, am 2014-09-14 10:43:15, hat gesagt:
Yes nice tree

Just wondering how the age was calculated. Norway spruces are lucky to live 200 years in U.K.. It may be that fungal pathogens may be less aggressive in continental climates with colder winters?

Stephen


KoutaR, am 2014-09-14 11:24:35, hat gesagt:
The www-site of the park says "Ihr Alter schätzt man auf etwa 380 Jahre" = "Its age is estimated as ca. 380 years". http://www.nationalpark-saechsische-schweiz.de/der-nationalpark/naturraum/naturwald/die-fichte-picea-abies/

I am not sure but I think I saw boring traces in the trunk. It is definitely much older than 200 y. Spruce cannot attain almost 5 m girth in 200 years in Germany. The UK's climate is apparently not the best for Norways spruce. Possibly too ocean. Fungal pathogens may be one factor, indeed. "Conifers" knows more about this, I once has a short e-mail discussion with him.

Kouta



RedRob, am 2014-09-11 17:07:05, hat gesagt:
Hello Stephen, the tallest tree that I found in Aber Hirnant is the one on the left in the distant photo, 54.2 metres although the base was difficult to see and I had to estimate the location so it could be near 55 metres. Is this the tree that you found, near the group of houses with the Sequoiadendron in the garden?

Stephen Verge, am 2014-09-14 10:51:41, hat gesagt:
Rob

Glad you found them. Could be my tree but was further up the hill when I recorded 55m. Probably some of the oldest Douglas in Wales, some close to 1.8m in diameter. I reckon planting was around 1860-1870? tried to count the whorls but too difficult. Some of these trees could have in excess of 40m3 each!

Stephen



What is your favorite tree
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kathryn, am 2014-09-12 23:14:25, hat gesagt:
i like weeping willows

RedRob, am 2014-09-13 16:43:01, hat gesagt:
Hello Kathryn, generally Coast Redwoods are my favourite tree, love their size, majesty and indeterminable will to live when damaged or felled, branches becoming new trunks if one falls and is laid on it's side. Individually, my favourite tree on this site is this one Sitka-Fichte (Picea sitchensis) '9351'

such a maligned tree but what a magnificent speciman and what magnificent trees Sitkas can make.



kathryn, am 2014-09-12 21:06:07, hat gesagt:
that is cool

americano1951, am 2014-09-12 19:53:11, hat gesagt:
Cuando voy a Aranjuez visito este árbol y otros mucho que hay en Aranjuez, son muchos muy grandes.

JesusGiraldo, am 2014-09-12 19:42:47, hat gesagt:
Pino Pazo do Cabido

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