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Conifers, am 2014-11-23 18:38:35, hat gesagt:
Podocarpus sp., perhaps P. salignus (though the leaves are a bit short for this)
wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 21:00:48, hat gesagt:
Thanks, yes I think P. Salignus leaves are too big, will upload a clearer picture..... Possibly nubigenus?

Conifers, am 2014-11-23 18:34:52, hat gesagt:
Norway Spruce Picea abies
wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 19:32:29, hat gesagt:
I will upload a clearer picture of both cone and shoot but the bottom side of the shoot is very noticeably white (which made me think it wasn't Norway spruce).... will upload a picture of the underside.

Conifers, am 2014-11-23 18:39:58, geändert am 2014-11-23 18:40:30, hat gesagt:
Abies forrestii or close relative.

Edit: Any cones near the top?

wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 18:43:24, hat gesagt:
There are a few cones on the ends of the top branches.
Conifers, am 2014-11-23 18:48:08, hat gesagt:
Can you get a pic, please! Also a pic of a shoot showing the underside would help. Thanks!
Conifers, am 2014-11-23 18:48:42, hat gesagt:
Oh, and the sharper the focus, the better ;-)
wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 19:18:47, hat gesagt:
I know!! :-) it was a bit windy when I was taking the picture!!

wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 14:19:37, hat gesagt:
It is a five needled pine.
Conifers, am 2014-11-23 18:32:56, hat gesagt:
Could be any of several - Pinus armandii, P. ayacahuite, P. monticola, P. strobiformis, P. stylesii, P. veitchii, P. wallichiana, or a hybrid (white pines are notorious for hybridising!). Needs a cone for determination. A close macro of a more vigorous young shoot (to see if glabrous or pubescent) would also help.
wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 18:46:58, hat gesagt:
Will upload a clearer picture soon, no cones yet as still a young tree... only about 8 - 10 metres.

Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-22 22:48:58, hat gesagt:
This looks to be a Abies koreana

Greetings, Martin Tijdgat


wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-22 23:39:16, hat gesagt:
Hello, thanks for this, I wasn't sure as the cones were at the very top of the tree.

Conifers, am 2014-11-23 00:27:51, hat gesagt:
Not quite right for Abies koreana, looks more like Abies × arnoldiana (hybrid between Abies koreana and Abies veitchii) to me.

Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-23 00:51:42, hat gesagt:
Conifers,

Thanks, that is a new one for me. How do you keep A. Koreana and A. X arnoldiana apart?


Conifers, am 2014-11-23 18:46:21, hat gesagt:
The hybrid is of course intermediate between the parents. Leaf length / width ratio (A. koreana has shorter, broader needles, A. veitchii longer, slenderer needles), and the degree of white below (A. koreana more vivid white often covering the full width of the underside, A. veitchii less vivid white and usually in two bands with the green midrib showing easily) are the best features to look for.


Conifers, am 2014-11-23 18:35:36, geändert am 2014-11-23 18:36:41, hat gesagt:
Lawson's Cypress again (maybe cultivar 'Erecta')


Conifers, am 2014-11-23 18:34:12, hat gesagt:
Sawara Cypress Chamaecyparis pisifera

Conifers, am 2014-11-23 00:23:34, hat gesagt:
A cultivar of Lawson's Cypress Chamaecyparis lawsoniana
wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 01:10:10, hat gesagt:
Thanks,

You wouldn't know which one? It's been annoying me for a while now.

Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-23 09:12:04, hat gesagt:
This can be the slow growing cv. 'Columnaris'. Is known when this tree was planted?
wwhiteside97, am 2014-11-23 10:20:12, hat gesagt:
No known planting date, although there is a picture of it from 15-20 years ago and it hasn't grown too much since then.
Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-11-23 12:35:58, hat gesagt:
Looking at the other Lawson's cypresses in this park it is a full matured tree. I would say it is no longer a tree off undetermined species, but a Chamaecyparis lawsoniana 'Columnaris'

Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-13 08:02:59, hat gesagt:
Hello Owen

Wow! This one escaped me on MT. I have been here several times and yes quite remarkable that trees of this size can be as big here as in Scotland or Wales, with only 900mm of rain! This tree may surpass the Douglas in Broadwood, Dunster?

Obviously the deeply weathered sandy brown earth soil type derived from the Lower Greensand has been a factor. A pity Southern England was not covered in Greensand as opposed to horrible chalk. There is something magical about this soil which I am interested in finding out about. Here in Oxon, Nuneham Courtenay also on Greensand grows big conifers with only 600mm of rain.

Big Western Hemlock too at Polecat.

I noticed the Sequoia had probably been hit by lightning above the cottage, presume this is the one Alan measured as 170' in his book? An overestimate perhaps?

Kind regards

Stephen


TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-15 18:12:28, hat gesagt:
Greensand is indeed the best soil in south-east England for tree-growth, and so many good tree sites are concentrated on it despite the tiny proportion of the country which it covers. I think the secret is that the grains are coarse enough to allow easy root-penetration but fine enough to be water-retentive. Soils washed down the from the Old Red Sandstone (Welsh Marches etc) and from ancient Scottish sandstone have just the same qualities. So, presumably, do loess soils in the Netherlands where trees can also grow very tall (without the benefits of much side-shelter from high hills as we have in England). Chalk is also much better than heavy clay, which covers so much of lowland England.

I have no idea how tall the Polecat Copse trees will grow. They are in a superbly sheltered spot and the two tallest have continued to produce long leaders through the 14 years I've known them, though they've lost their leaders once or twice and some others in the same line now have rough, bushy tops (but are still growing). Given the right soil, and shelter from dehydrating winds, Douglas don't seem to be troubled by drought or high summer temperatures. I don't know the local conditions for the 65m tree in the Massif Central of France but I would assume that summers there are hotter and drier than in Surrey.

That said, I suspect drought-stress rather than lightning for the loss of the top of the Giant Sequoia opposite Angle Cottage. Lightning would have been more likely to strike the higher tree-tops of the bank to the west. In 1995 we had a very dry summer near my home in Hastings and many of the taller Giant Sequoias died back a few metres (and have now recovered but rounded off).


Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-16 09:46:03, hat gesagt:
Hello Owen

Thanks. Yes I think the secret with Lower Greensand is the ability for trees to extract soil water much more easily due to the pores and matrix of the soil, coupled with a moderately acid ph and reasonable fertility. On a clay soil water holding capacity is obviously greater, but trees cannot extract it as well as on say Greensand due to the pores and soil matrix unfavorable for tree root growth and penetration. Subsequent capillary action of soil water through the soil is much better on Greensand. As it is a soft sandstone is must have weathered deeply as well. It also probably has no root depth restriction caused by an iron pan, which is frequent on acid sandy soils.

Ulmus and Quercus robur as an opposite example seems to love surface water gleys on clay vales.

It appears to me that Giant Sequoia much prefers sandy soils and the Bagshot Sand near my locality at Crowthorne and also at the Valley Gardens Near Windsor as you know grow big trees, despite only 600mm of rain, some 300mm less than at Polecat. Also Giant Sequoia and Douglas are adapted to grow on sandy well drained soils in their native habitat so it is no surprise.

The tree at Angle Cottage lost many metres due to crown dieback which I think is most likely lightning. Yes I have also seen Giant Sequoia die back due to drought, but I know that when lightning strikes Sequoias it often rarely leaves a scar on the trunk, possibly due to the insulation properties of the bark, however it sometimes does and I have seen trees blown apart in the most extreme examples. I know that Beech rarely leaves a scar and yet oak is badly affected. A difficult question and needs more research.

I know that the Massif Central is the wettest place in France with up to 2000mm, but one has to remember that with higher temperatures the evapotranspiration and summer soil moisture defict would be greater than at Polecat, so perhaps only the available rainfall/soil water there will be only slightly greater?

Windspeed is much less in Surrey than in Somerset, so perhaps they will grow to 60m+ at Polecat.

Regards

Stephen


Conifers, am 2014-11-16 10:00:51, hat gesagt:
"Giant Sequoia ... and I have seen trees blown apart in the most extreme examples"

Seehttp://www.pinetum.org/lightning.htm for an example!


Stephen Verge, am 2014-11-16 10:08:21, hat gesagt:
Thanks Conifers

BANG!!! Wow that is an example, I have seen oak trees like this also.


RedRob, am 2014-11-17 18:22:13, geändert am 2014-11-17 18:23:52, hat gesagt:
Only visited this location once, 2011 and wish that I had had the laser then. Thank you for registering this Owen, it needed to be on here.

http://www.redwoodworld.co.uk/picturepages/haslemere.htm

Is the Sequoiadendron near the cottage, here called 'King Kong' still likely to be 51 metres which you measured, assessed it as a few years ago or will it have added some height? I remember looking at this tree from angles and it would have been difficult to see the top and bottom to measure it. The Coast Redwood in the photo above is one at the top of the hill near the old big house but there is a taller one I am sure, immediately on the hillside above the 51 metre 'King Kong' Seqy. I took photos on an old mobile phone and have not been able to get the photos off it as don't have Bluetooth on my laptop. They would be 1.5MP photos so may not be that great. Anyway, this Coast Redwood looked pretty tall, slim and surely 40 metres plus. There is/was also a conifer plantation just the west of the 59 metre Douglas Fir grove, if I remember Larch and Spruce, Sitka snd Norway, which looked pretty tall.


TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-18 19:48:11, hat gesagt:
Near Angle Cottage at Polecat Copse, the Sequoiadendron that died back around 2005 was the taller but slenderer of a pair. I had measured it at 48m in 2000 but may have underestimated - Alan's 170' c.1990 was presumably a bit too high. The fatter tree beside it (the one in 'Redwood World' has preserved its tip and had grown to 51m by 2011, but I can't guarantee how accurate this was either. I shall return with the laser in due course.

RedRob, am 2014-11-21 18:16:54, hat gesagt:
I was taken with how red the trunks were of the Douglas at Polecat, Sequoiadendron colour if not even more red, due to the drier air according to Owen.

Are the 44 metre Larches still there at the location in Surrey Owen?


TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-21 21:18:42, hat gesagt:
I think 44m was Alan Mitchell's top height for the larches at Hascombe Hill in the 1980s. I visited in 2000 when I think I made one 43m. I plan to revisit sometime soon.


Scharlaken eik in de tuin van Villa
Für jedermann sichtbar · permalink · nl
Leo Goudzwaard, am 2014-11-13 11:35:45, hat gesagt:
wow, this oak tree has been grafted twice!, and I have never seen this before.

Has anyone noticed this before on large trees?

The old Quercus coccinea trees in the Netherlands are usually grafted once and quite high on the stam, on Q. rubra or Q. palustris.

Double grafting has been common practice with fruit trees as apple, pear and Cydonia.

In Dutch the method is called "tussenstam"-method.

Great finding and good picture, Nardo!


TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-11-15 18:17:48, hat gesagt:
I've only seen double-grafting of Pyrus salicifolia 'Pendula' and on what in Britain were sold as 'Sheraton' cherries. (Roots Prunus avium, trunk P. serrula, crown P. serrulata cv. They don't live long.) In SE England many older Quercus coccinea are also grafted on Q. rubra and I had assumed they were 'Splendens', a clone distributed by the Knap Hill Nursery in Surrey. They have bigger axillary tufts under the leaf vein-joints, almost like Q. palustris. I don't know whether the Knap Hill Nursery also distributed to the near Continent or if there was a similar clone sold there as grafts.

Conifers, am 2014-11-16 13:57:46, hat gesagt:
I'm not sure it is double-grafted, it may just be a coincidence with the bark pattern on the burrs. The adjacent Scharlach-Eiche (Quercus coccinea) '19854' is clearly not double-grafted.

Conifers, am 2014-11-16 16:44:39, hat gesagt:
I just looked at the tree on Google Street View, which shows it well from the other side. Only one graft line!


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