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aljos1, am 2014-04-23 14:23:48, hat gesagt:
This oak has apparently been removed from the list of >9.00 m girth oaks on the website, although it still shows up on the map as tree No. 1681 in that size class (red symbol). This is presumably because it is considered multi-stemmed i.e. more than one tree. I have not visited this oak but doubt the validity of this judgement. In England several large oaks have this appearance, it resulted from splitting and subsequent reparation growth (as seen on the left). Is the stem on the right an integer stem grown without former connection to the rest or does it show evidence of connection similar as the stem on the left? What about the section facing the viewer?

This oak needs careful investigation before it is dismissed. I wonder if this has been done and if someone could inform me about it. If it is a single oak tree it is the only one in NL >9.00 m but if more than one tree, it has to come off my list of such oaks in Europe.

Aljos Farjon

Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew

Conifers, am 2014-04-23 15:37:59, hat gesagt:
@ Aljos: multi-stemmed does not mean the same as "more than one tree" - it just means that one or more low branches have developed upright, trunk-like characteristics, making the girth measurement much larger than a single unbranched trunk for the same size of tree.

My own guess is that this could be derived from an old coppice stool.

Christopher, am 2014-04-22 14:31:39, hat gesagt:

Conifers, am 2014-04-23 15:31:57, hat gesagt:
Not sure what it is, but the bark is wrong for Ailanthus. That is also an unlikely candidate in tropical east Africa.

mrgreen, am 2014-04-22 11:08:55, hat gesagt:
There must be a mistake with the height :)
Conifers, am 2014-04-22 15:41:59, hat gesagt:
Yes, definitely!! Looking at it on google street view, looks to be in the range 16-18 metres tall.
Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-04-22 22:03:20, hat gesagt:
To me on google street view it looks more like 25 metres or a bit higher.
Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-04-22 23:01:02, hat gesagt:
Lionel, jeroen, Conifers and mrgreen,

The tree has a diametre off 28 to 30 meters, if compared to the row off cars on the carpark. I agree with Jeroen that this tree must be around 25 meters tall or about 80 feet as viewed with steetview.

Greetings, Martin

Conifers, am 2014-04-23 15:29:25, hat gesagt:
Not as much as that - look at the building at the left (as google-viewed from N Ross St); blue side doors 2m high; so 3m to tops of orange columns, and 7m total height. Tree is just over 2.5 times higher than the building, i.e., about 18 metres. The crown is 1.6 times as wide as high, i.e., from 18m tall, about 29m diameter, which accords well with Martin's diameter estimate compared to the cars.

Conifers, am 2014-04-20 20:27:45, hat gesagt:
Pinus halepensis

Conifers, am 2014-04-18 19:42:36, hat gesagt:
Do you have a close-up of the foliage (and cones if present), please?
JUAN ALBERT PORCAR, am 2014-04-19 07:27:29, hat gesagt:

Chamaecyparis funebris (ciprés fúnebre)

Conifers, am 2014-04-20 17:32:28, hat gesagt:
Thanks! Agree, Cupressus funebris (formerly sometimes treated in Chamaecyparis, but wrongly so).

Conifers, am 2014-04-20 17:30:41, hat gesagt:
Pinus canariensis

Conifers, am 2014-04-18 22:07:06, hat gesagt:
Thanks for the extra photos! Yes, clearly Thuja plicata. The bark photos also show typical Thuja plicata bark.
Karlheinz, am 2014-04-18 23:25:14, hat gesagt:
I faced Christoph Michels and the "Kiefernspezi" as representatives of the "Deutsche Dendrologische Gesellschaft e.V." with your determination and asked to comment.



Karlheinz, am 2014-04-20 07:06:56, hat gesagt:
I have changed the species to Thuja plicata.

Typical whitish pattern on the branches underside, the habitus of the entire tree and the bark point to Thuja plicata. Cones, which would also be suitable for distinction, could not be found yet.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2013-11-15 17:55:00, hat gesagt:
The historic heights for this tree seem to show the limitations of both hypsometers and lasers. 33m is optimistic, aiming at branches which are arching slightly towards the observer. 27m is much too low, due to the laser hitting low twigs on the near side (the top of a tree with a crown as rounded as this is completely hidden, even from a distance, in summer. Having measured it several times (with hypsometer) before it leafs out, I'm going to plump for 30.8m - though I can't really claim that degree of accuracy.
Jeroen Philippona, am 2013-11-16 00:43:03, geändert am 2013-11-16 00:46:48, hat gesagt:
Yes, I think with 31 m you are near the true height of this tree. My 33 m measurement in 2007 with Suunto clinometer was not very accurate. Owen, you should add your 30.8 m measurement also in the system with the right date.

When you visit Kew next time you could measure it again with laser. I also think Wim B. did not hit the tallest branches.

Wim Brinkerink, am 2013-11-16 15:02:11, hat gesagt:
What both of you are saying might well be true. It's not always easy to find the highest one and a mistake is easily made.
krossdal1, am 2014-03-30 10:43:24, hat gesagt:
great tree
RedRob, am 2014-04-17 16:07:40, hat gesagt:
Wouldn't an answer for this tree be to email Kew and ask them to meet you with one of those hydraulic extendable things which men stand in to get up to the crowns of trees to prune? It would give you a view over the top of the crown more and down to the base, that said some of the branches look low and could obscure the view of the laser from some windows.
Conifers, am 2014-04-17 19:14:24, hat gesagt:
That sounds a good idea, offer them £1000 for the costs of using it, and I'm sure they'd do it ;-))
Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-04-17 19:17:58, hat gesagt:
One mistake I made before 2014 is that I didn't add my own length to the measurement. So my measurement must at least be heightened with 1.80 meters.
RedRob, am 2014-04-18 16:30:00, hat gesagt:
I regularly enjoy a walk around the Fountains Abbey estate and the National Trust often have their hydraulic container mounted on the back of a Land Rover out and pruning trees, I imagine that Kew will have something similar. Shouldn't be a difficult job to email them to ask when they might be doing some pruning in that area. If it is to confirm a champion tree they possibly would be quite obliging.
Jeroen Philippona, am 2014-04-18 20:57:31, hat gesagt:
I am sure that it is not that difficult to measure the height of this tree, you just have to get far enough to see the real top: from the north there is an open view from over 100 m to the tree, the top can be seen easily from there.

Conifers, am 2014-04-18 19:40:09, hat gesagt:
Foliage characters identify readily as Thuja plicata

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-03-21 21:14:10, hat gesagt:
Wie wil mij vertellen wat ze vinden van de monumentaliteit van deze boom ?Ik ben zeer nieuwsgierig? Geen sparende antwoorden svp. Zeg gewoon wat je vindt. Al vind je het helemaal niks, maakt mij niet uit.
Conifers, am 2014-03-21 23:09:07, hat gesagt:
Hi Wim - it looks to be a good specimen for its species (if I am right with it being Malus sylvestris!), above average but not exceptional in size or location; if rating it, I guess I would give it around 3.75 or 4 on MT's rating system.
Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-03-22 07:08:28, hat gesagt:
Hai Wim and Conifers,

Malus sylvestris checks out with it's overal treeform, bark, flower and leaf. It is a beautiful old tree and belongs in MT as I see it.

Greetings, Martin

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-03-22 10:11:07, hat gesagt:
Thank you fot your opinion There is also somebody who speaks in numbers. Probably a bit shy person
Martin Tijdgat, am 2014-03-22 12:44:04, hat gesagt:

Ik geef foto's een waardering als fotokwaliteit en de mate waarin de boom mijn bewondering, verwondering of andere emotie oproept. Dat is meer bepalend dan de maten (geen Miss World verkiezing).

Veel plezier trouwens volgende week met de fotocursus van Hans Clausing in de Leidse Hortus.


Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-03-22 12:50:59, hat gesagt:
Hi Martin,

Dat is ook mijn lijn. Daarnaast Geef ik niet stelselmatig allerlei foto's die ik lager waardeer dan 3 een cijfer. Dat is zo flauw en irritant. Maar ja, kennelijk heeft de betreffende figuur daar veel behoefte aan want hij doet het vaak. Hier ook weer. Ik snap niet waarom je één van deze foto's een 2,5 moet geven. Het is niet zo dat ik me daardoor gekwetst voel. Eigenlijk interesseert het me niet zo veel. Ik vind het plaatje wel mooi, zo van die frisse voorjaarsbloesem, maar dat hoeft niemand met me eens te zijn. Ik vind het alleen raadselachtig en ik begrijp graag alles. (Ik was nou eenmaal een controlfreak in mijn werkzame leven)


TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-03-30 17:21:09, hat gesagt:
From your photo, Wim, I'm fairly confident this is Malus hupehensis, a species from China and Japan introduced (to Britain) around 1901. It is one of the largest-growing Malus, as well as one of the most beautiful.
Leo Goudzwaard, am 2014-03-30 18:05:50, hat gesagt:
Hello Owen,Wim and others

M. hupehensis could be right, or M. baccata. Both species have pure white flowers. They differ in fruits, but from the image of the flowering tree it is difficult to say. M. baccata is more common than M. hupehensis in the Netherlands. Flowers of M. sylvestris are not white, so it is certainly not M. sylvestris. I agree in changing the species in M. hupehensis.

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-03-30 19:02:23, geändert am 2014-03-30 19:23:51, hat gesagt:
Thank you all for the intrest. With your comment in mind I will try to give additional information.I'm not at all surprised if this is a special tree. I talked to some people in the neighbourhoud, they keep being attracted to it's beauty. Besides The Clingendael estate is a very special place. During centuries is was habitated by people that made a difference in history. Up till now it is habitated by a scientific elaborate institute that studies international relations.

Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-04-05 19:03:43, hat gesagt:
Hi all,

Today I visited this tree again and was very much surprised that it didn't show any flowers. Apparently it blooms only one time in two years?. Does this add information for you? Ik will upload some new pictures of the leaves and bark. Furthermore I saw a smaller similar tree next to it and another apparently the same some hundred metres furtheron.

TheTreeRegisterOwenJohnson, am 2014-04-06 16:32:58, hat gesagt:
In England they bloom each year, but they are not the earliest to bloom (still in bud now). I find it difficult to tell M.hupehensis with confidence from M. baccata (or M. mandshurica which is the commonly grown form), but this tree's wide-spreading irregular habit and bark cracking into big scales with orange and pink tints are characteristic of M. hupehensis.
Wim Brinkerink, am 2014-04-18 15:36:56, hat gesagt:
Hi all,

Today I again visited the Malus Hupehensis (t 16999) and to my pleasure I saw it is full of buds. Next week I will visit it again accompanied by Martin Tijdgat. For now I upload a picture of the bus.

Furthermore, apparently there was someone in the Hague who really liked these trees, I found another example in the West of the Hague on the Hyacinthweg. I will post it later on.



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